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INTOTHENEW's Photo INTOTHENEW Posts: 729
2/23/20 10:52 A

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Where can one find the SAD recommendations mentioned?

There is no bad food, only bad cooks.
RUSTY_WOODS Posts: 1,011
2/23/20 9:28 A

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I have to eat low carb to lose any weight.. BUT carbs are getting a bad rap. Not only are there a variety of carbs, but different people have different reactions to them.

Vegetables can be an issue if they are starchy vegetables, but you can eat a lot of leafy green veggies even on a low carb diet as strict as Atkins Induction.

Most people do not need to be that strict though. It is a restrictive diet, meant to help a small section of society, not everyone. A lot of people can lose weight, and feel great eating 50-150 g a day.. a lucky few experience no ill effects at all, even eating bad carbs. These people shouldn't be limiting themselves to under 50 g a day or less.

I will say though that for a minority of people, carbs DO cause weight gain. I have to stay below 30 g a day TOTAL. I am usually below 20. I am diabetic, and this helps control my blood sugar, without meds, but more importantly, it eliminates cravings.. and cravings are almost always for more carbs.. so if I had carrots, a higher carb, starchy vegetable.. my cravings would return, and I would be having 4th meal at Taco Bell. Yes, the weight gain is due to the Taco Bell/10 burritos.. but without eating carrots, I would never have the cravings that took me to Taco Bell, and once I get those cravings.

As soon as I eat some carbs not on my plan, weight gain is guaranteed. I can't go to sleep with cravings. I can't ignore them, and as I eat the food I went to handle the cravings, I crave even more, and eat until I hurt.. thousands of calories in one sitting, with as much pop as I can drink, until my heart starts to pound, and I am sweating. As I am eating, I think.. maybe this is it, maybe I will have a heart attack tonight, but I can't stop.

I could probably go to a shrink, and try to stop this, but simply not eating these foods takes care of it.. so while carbs themselves get a bad rap, and many are healthy for most people.. the problem is not low carb, but that low carb is being applied to everyone.. when the truth is, carbs should simply be reduced from the amount most people consume. We should go through life eating enough carbs just for energy, to fill our muscles with glycogen, fuel our current activity, and burn the extra glucose off.

Even SAD doesn't recommend you eat unhealthy carbs in excess, although I think they have too high of a level for most people, and excess glucose is stored as fat. If people followed the plans correctly, they could be healthy, and never need to do a diet as restrictive as what I have to eat.

A blanket statement that carbs are not the cause of weight gain though, is erroneous. For a sizable chunk of people, they are the cause, at this point in their lives. Telling them that carbs are OK, is harmful to them, which they will find out, if they go ahead and eat more carbs, and gain 20 lbs. before they realize your statement does not apply to everyone. It's your opinion, based on what works for you. It would be just as bad for me to say people need to eat less than 30 g a day to lose weight.

One size doesn't fit everyone.



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2/21/20 8:44 A



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@SOCALDEBBIE

There is a misconception that eating too many carbs causes a person to gain weight. My personal opinion is that carbs are getting a bad wrap much the same way fat got a bad wrap 20-30 years ago. I will say that yes, some people can be sensitive to carbs for various medical reasons and do need to be mindful.

With that said, if you want a plant based protein option to red meat, think red beans and rice or lentils and rice. There are plenty of gluten free varieties of rice you could eat if you happen to be eating gluten free. I don't really eat red meat anymore. That was a personal choice for some ethical as well as taste reasons.

I do eat seafood and fish, but no beef, chicken or pork. I will only eat them on rare occasions like a little turkey on Thanksgiving or a slice of ham at Easter. Most days, I'm eating vegetarian.

And if I do say so myself, I've been able to maintain the weight I lost and stay in good physical condition eating what would be considered a high carb diet. Most of my carbs come from things like fresh fruit and veggies, quinoa, rice and dare I say it. bread. yup. still eat bread and lived to tell the tale. LOLLLLLLL


MLAN613 Posts: 23,964
2/21/20 6:38 A

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Then it gets back to if you hate fish even having tried it prepared in a few ways, don't eat it. Period. I think what @MICHELLEXXXX about eating the you like is valid.

Let me provide a personal example of forcing yourself to eat something you don't like. I made a new to me recipe this past Sunday for 4 of my 5 lunches this week. It contained ingredients I liked. However, the flavor combinations didn't work plus the butternut squash ended up mushy due to being over cooked. I had to eat it because it's what I had for lunch. Throwing it was out of the question as it cost me money and I do not like to be wasteful. Moreover, I didn't have any other options for lunch.

What happened to me because of this? I was crabby because I had to eat it and it added stress to what was an otherwise stressful week in a new position I am still learning. It caused me to overreact to a few (completely fixable) errors I made.

Honestly, what I learned is eating something that didn't taste good to me wasn't worth it. In the future, I would toss the vegetables; the chicken was good at least.

Meghan in Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA


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SOCALDEBBIE Posts: 95
2/21/20 2:10 A

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@MICHELLEXXXX - I do! I was just looking for a way to incorporate fish as an alternative to red meat.



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2/21/20 1:19 A

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@MICHELLEXXXX - yes, no, no,no, yes, and yes

- Message Posted by: SOCALDEBBIE - 2/20/2020 Then eat those things for protein.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever exercises faith in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16


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SOCALDEBBIE Posts: 95
2/20/20 12:30 P

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@ARCHIMEDESII - thanks for the restaurant tips. I have tried swordfish after being told it "tastes like steak" - not so much. I would never have thought of mixing tuna with hummus - great idea!

Everyone, I appreciate all of you for the input.

I DID gain this weight eating 1400-1500 calories a day of good carbs and whole foods, along with regular exercise. That's been my pattern almost my whole adult life, and that's why I don't believe continuing to do so is the answer. The high protein approach came from a nutritionist one of my doctors referred me to. Her plan alone didn't help me lose but it did keep me stable. When I go back to my carb-y preferences I can easily put on a couple of pounds in a couple of days. I'm still fighting to take off the two pounds I gained on vacation in November, which was already three pounds higher than I'd been a year earlier, which was already two or three pounds higher than I'd been six months before that.

I know I don't need that much protein for health. What I don't know is if it will get me through the weight battle, and that's my focus. Maybe that plus more aggressive calorie cycling will do it, I don't know. Kinda grasping at straws at this point.



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2/20/20 8:56 A



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SOCALDEBBIE,

If I'm eating at a good seafood restaurant, I will order grilled tuna steak. It's nothing like the tuna you get out of can. Tuna steak and even swordfish are probably the most "meat" like fishes you could eat.

Here's something I do with canned tuna. Instead of using mayo to make tuna fish, I use hummus. If you mix the tuna with hummus, you might not notice it tastes like fish. You'd certainly max out your protein requirements eating tuna/hummus.

If you really prefer to lean towards being vegetarian or vegan (that's where I'm leaning), do check out Fork Over Knives or maybe an Indian vegetarian cook book if you are looking for new recipes.

Once again, to rehash what we've all been saying, if you don't like seafood, don't force yourself to eat it.

Edited by: ARCHIMEDESII at: 2/20/2020 (09:00)
MLAN613 Posts: 23,964
2/20/20 6:37 A

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I am also concerned with your desired target of 45% protein. Did a doctor or, better yet, registered dietitian tell you to follow that and give a good reason for you to do so?

Honestly, your body doesn't need that that much! And, per Kris' (SLIMMERKIWI) post, it sounds like you are getting enough protein. If anything, too much protein, even from good sources, can potentially cause health issues down the road.

Most of us didn't get fat because we ate too many GOOD carbs (fruits, vegetables, whole grains) lean protein and healthy fat. It's because we ate too much processed junk: cupcakes, cookies, overly refined oils, and junk meat. I encourage you to focus on eating real, whole foods and see what happens.

Meghan in Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA


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MLAN613 Posts: 23,964
2/20/20 6:20 A

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Wow! You are getting a lot of help. Another thing I thought of is whey protein or a similar shelf stable protein. I personally avoid soy protein due to allergies and estrogen dominance issues. But, I make a lot of smoothies loaded with fruits, vegetables, a little healthy fat like nut butters, whole avocado, or avocado oil and it's usually really good.

Edited by: MLAN613 at: 2/20/2020 (07:32)
Meghan in Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA


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2/20/20 5:45 A



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I just had a little peak at your Nutrition Tracker. The last 3 days averaged 113g Protein per day. That is MORE than enough protein to meet your body's needs. I eat an average of 77g protein daily and even that is more than my essential needs. Generally the recommendation is .8g protein per every kg (2.2lb) of body weight. Elite athletes generally need more, or those who do a lot of intensive weights etc. but most gym-goers don't need extra.

These articles by Dietitan Becky are worth reading:
www.sparkpeople.com/resource/nutrition_art
icles.asp?id=1963


www.sparkpeople.com/blog/blog.asp?post=you
_asked_can_you_really_eat_too_much_pro
tein


This article is also written by a Registered Dietitian and focuses on NON-meat protein:
www.sparkpeople.com/resource/nutrition_art
icles.asp?id=158


I hope that you realize, you don't NEED to follow various diets to lose weight or be healthy. I would suggest trying eating the healthy choices that you enjoy, ensuring that there is a good balance of wholegrains, nuts/seeds, fruit/veggies, lean protein and healthy fats. Many of us have lost a significant amount of weight and enjoyed good health while just focusing on good nutrition and steering clear of 'diets'

Edited by: SLIMMERKIWI at: 2/20/2020 (05:46)
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I am not a Dr - please check with your qualified Health Professional for a diagnosis and treatment plan


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2/20/20 5:27 A



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If you don't like fish then don't eat it - simple! If you find the smell affects you, avoid restaurants that sell it.

Fish isn't essential for weight-loss or good health. Ensuring that you get quality fats/carbs/lean protein and getting plenty of fruit/veggies into your diet is important.

My sister is highly allergic to fish, and has an epi-pen. Even the smell is enough to make her vomit. If we want to eat fish, we do it when she isn't around. If she and I have been to a cafe, it has always been one that doesn't do fish.

Kris

Edited by: SLIMMERKIWI at: 2/20/2020 (05:27)
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ndividual.asp?gid=17464


I am not a Dr - please check with your qualified Health Professional for a diagnosis and treatment plan


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SOCALDEBBIE Posts: 95
2/20/20 2:12 A

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@ZELDA13 - thanks for the suggestion on the white fish. If I'm in a restaurant and someone near me orders fish, I can smell it. Fish markets are loaded with fresh fish, and I can sure smell that.

I never liked tuna or clam chowder. I did once have clam dip and not realize it had clams, because it just tasted like garlic and sour cream. But I don't think that's my goal here :)



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SOCALDEBBIE Posts: 95
2/20/20 2:05 A

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@MICHELLEXXXX - yes, no, no,no, yes, and yes



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2/20/20 1:31 A

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I have to repeat what another poster stated. If it smells like fish, it is not fresh. I think the easiest fish to start with would be a white fish, like flounder or halibut to name a couple. We usually bake it topped with some butter, parsley and lemon. If you like pesto, a bit of that on top is also good.
I don't notice a smell in the house but you can also wrap it in foil and either bake it or cook it on the grill which should help eliminate any odor.
Do you care for canned tuna? If so, fresh tuna tastes even better. What about soups, like Manhattan Clam Chowder, that have fish in them?
Some other things I like to boost my protein is green peas, steamed spinach, pepitas, either alone or to top plain Greek yogurt with, and of course lentils and quinoa.




Alice

"I have not been placed on this earth to fit your mold or conform to what makes you feel more comfortable with my existence." Michelle Steinke

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.


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2/20/20 12:40 A

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Do you like bacon? Chicken wings? Shrimp scampi? Lobster tail with butter? Cheeseburger? Meatballs?

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever exercises faith in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16


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SOCALDEBBIE Posts: 95
2/19/20 7:55 P

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@ARCHIMEDESII - I admit it's been a while, but in the past I've tried fish at high-end seafood restaurants or prepared by family/friends. I don't even want to be around the smell, and I don't prepare it myself. I'm a southern Californian, so there's always been plenty of fresh stuff available.

Sushi = bait. :) And I agree with you on the liver! Since it's the body's waste filtration system, I'm not convinced it's that healthy anyway.



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SOCALDEBBIE Posts: 95
2/19/20 7:38 P

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Thanks again! I'm always so impressed with the way people on this board are willing to take time to share their expertise.

I know how to get enough protein to be healthy. By most measures, I am healthy. Cholesterol, blood pressure, resting heartbeat, overall fitness, I'm just fine. Unfortunately I'm also 25 pounds or so overweight after years of low-fat eating (no, not diet sodas and Lean Cuisine! Well, all right, I used to, but not for a long time now.)

I know this is unfashionable but this is all about weight loss, reducing my borderline waist/hip ratio and taking the pressure off my oft-operated knees. I'm targeting about 45% of calories from protein to see what that gets me. I haven't found a way to do that on plant protein, much as I would like to, because it comes with more carbs than protein. Maybe this protein focus is the completely wrong approach, but I'm running out of things to try.

I love nuts and cheese for protein, but that pushes the fat intake out of whack. That leads me back to chicken breast and lean red meat...hence the question about fish. I grew up not liking chicken, but learned I could tolerate white meat when it's prepared certain ways. I was hoping someone had a similar suggestion for seafood.



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NIRERIN Posts: 14,705
2/19/20 5:55 P

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Have you checked out any vegan recipes? It might be worth poking around, paying particular attention to the higher protein meals. Do the same with some vegetarian recipes, but pay attention to your egg issue. Keep in mind that you can use a vegan base and add a little bit of lean beef or a side of chicken breast. Find recipes that you like that ave a little more protein than what you would do on your own and build from there. One cookbook I particularly like is Mediterranean Vegan Kitchen. It uses very common ingredients and produces tasty recipes.

-google first. ask questions later.

MLAN613 Posts: 23,964
2/19/20 5:06 P

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Hi! There is no reason to force feed yourself if you don't generally like it. Really. Vegetarians and vegans truly can get enough protein in with vegetables or limited animal sources. They aren't unhealthy. I know a vegan who runs and bikes endurance events like the Leadville 100, which is a 100 mile foot race you have to complete within a specific time.

You like quiche. So, look for more quiche recipes. Frittata is an example of another baked egg dish. Look for egg bake dishes too.

Greek yogurt is good. Do you like cottage cheese? That is a great source of protein too. Add seeds like hemp hearts, chia, and flax.

Check out this vegan website for ideas:

www.forksoverknives.com

Meghan in Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA


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SOCALDEBBIE Posts: 95
2/19/20 3:04 P

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Thanks, Meghan!

You're right about quiche. I have a great crustless quiche recipe from Spark that I make occasionally, but it doesn't fill me up no matter how many veggies I pack into it. Hard boiled eggs rank only slightly above fish :) Plain Greek yogurt is my breakfast go-to and I'm always happy to throw in some cheese during the day. Not a fan of turkey, and the other meats you mention are still red (mammal) meat. When I get beef it's always very lean, so it's not so much an issue of fat content.

I really like plant proteins and could happily live on quinoa, lentils and brown rice, but they have more carbs than protein. High(ish) carb/low fat/moderate protein has been my pattern my entire adult life, so I've had to get it through my thick head that my supposedly healthy habits are what's gotten me into this predicament. Something different will have to get me out, which is why I'm scrambling to keep the protein high.



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2/19/20 3:03 P



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SOCALDEBBIE,

Where are you buying your fish ? The problem may not be the way you're cooking the fish, but the quality of the fish. Really fresh fish is expensive. I will only buy salmon or haddock when its on sale. My "go to" fish are sardines. And I know, those are an acquired taste. I like buying the ones sourced from Portugal and packed in olive oil. I think those taste best. personal opinion.

Trader Joe's has reasonably priced flash frozen sockeye salmon that's very good. It's about $9 to $10 for two pieces. I'll eat one piece per meal. It's good quality fish. Try a flash frozen fish if the fresh fish you're buying tastes fishy.

Also, have you eaten fish prepared at a restaurant ? do you eat fish when someone else cooks it ? What about sushi ? Have you tried sushi or is that too fishy as well ?

And you can get protein from lots of other sources than fish or meat. Nuts and beans are both excellent sources of protein if you're leaning towards being a vegetarian. Soy (tofu) can be a good choice too, just make sure the tofu is non GMO.

As an example of a food I wont eat even though it's healthy is liver. I know it's high in iron. I know it's good for me. but I hate liver. I'll eat me spinach like Popeye. LOL

MLAN613 Posts: 23,964
2/19/20 2:03 P

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The good news is you can get protein through plant sources. Beans and legumes have a good amount. There are also dairy sources like Greek yogurt and cheese.

You mentioned you can't eat eggs cooked on the stove top due to an allergy. Does this allergy cover all eggs or just those on stove top? If just stove top cooked eggs, have you tried quiche, which is oven baked? You can also do hard boiled eggs in the oven or instant pot (electric pressure cooker).

Have you tried turkey? How about pork? How about wild game like buffalo or venison?

Meghan in Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA


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SOCALDEBBIE Posts: 95
2/19/20 1:05 P

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Thanks for the responses so far!

I know I don't HAVE to eat fish. My natural preferences are fruits, vegetables, whole grains...carbs, even though they're healthy ones. The problem is that I don't know what I DO have to do. Weight Watchers (which is basically just low fat, I followed it faithfully for 18 months) isn't it. The basic Spark plan isn't it. I did a Whole30 and didn't discover any particular sensitivities, except that my body didn't like eating 16 ounces of meat a day. Not sold on keto. I worked with a nutritionist for several months who had me on fairly low carb (little bit of dairy, some berries in the morning, vegetables) and focused on protein. Gained and lost the same couple of pounds over and over. IF makes me cranky and sad.

The only direction I haven't gone is Mediterranean, and its reliance on fish as a staple is what keeps me away. I'm not a huge fan of poultry but can manage boneless skinless chicken breast. I'm allergic to eggs cooked on a stovetop, so no omelets or anything like that. So, outside of red meat, my protein choices are limited. Hence the desperate feelers to see if anyone else has found some kind of seafood that was sufficiently un-fishy, if you will, that they could handle it.



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LUANN_IN_PA Posts: 31,187
2/19/20 11:00 A

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" That's a bit of a disadvantage in weight loss world"
Not at all!
You do NOT have to eat fish to lose weight.
You do NOT have to eat fish to be healthy.

Life is too short to force yourself to eat foods you say you hate... ("Hate fish. All fish")

Edited by: LUANN_IN_PA at: 2/19/2020 (11:01)
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ARCHIMEDESII's Photo ARCHIMEDESII SparkPoints: (227,758)
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2/19/20 8:29 A



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Maybe that's the problem. If you're eating fish that smells like fish, it means the fish isn't fresh. Really fresh fish should smell like the ocean.

MLAN does bring up a good point, you don't have to eat seafood to be healthy. You could choose grass fed beef or bison. free range chicken or eggs. You might want to avoid ham because of nitrates. But there are lean meats you could eat if you want to eat meat.

Personally, I'm a big fan of all things seafood. Luckily, I live on the east coast, so I do have access to very fresh fish. And studies have shown that the omega 3s from wild salmon or fish DO help a person live a longer healthier life.

However, if you don't like fish, don't force yourself. If you want to lose weight and maintain your health, make sure you eat 6-9 servings of fresh fruit and veggies. Do you like eating veggies ?




MLAN613 Posts: 23,964
2/19/20 6:19 A

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If you don't like fish, you know, right, that you don't have to eat it, even if it can be prepared in a healthy way?

Meghan in Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA


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SOCALDEBBIE Posts: 95
2/19/20 1:58 A

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Hate fish. All fish. Seafood, river food, lake food, lobster, salmon, tuna, don't care, it all tastes (and - ugh - smells) like fish. That's a bit of a disadvantage in weight loss world. Have any reformed fish haters found some type that they've been able to tolerate?

Please don't just say I haven't had it prepared right!



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