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PROVERBS31JULIA's Photo PROVERBS31JULIA Posts: 5,878
9/5/19 9:36 P

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Ewww

I don't think I would be volunteering.


www.thomasnet.com/insights/im
plant-wou
ld-shock-dieters-thinking-abo
ut-fo
od/


(those really long awkward links that have all the stuff from ? on past the original link have the junk that tells them you arrived from an email campaign, which sometimes does prevent others from going to a link because they weren't also subscribers.). So just delete everything after that last / and the ? and everything after the ? mark.).

Since I managed to get through all my sociology classes without taking a single psychology class, I'll need to read up on Stanley Milgram and his infamous experiments. I was already aware of many of the dastardly experiments done in the Nazi regime before and during the Holocaust.


She girds herself with strength, And strengthens her arms.
Proverbs 31:17


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ECOAGE's Photo ECOAGE Posts: 12,850
8/28/19 6:44 P

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Laurie, I think you are correct. I'm sure social, cultural, economic realities of time and place molded the attitudes, expectations, and hopes for our little neighborhoods and our classrooms.

The Mattapan Branch Library of my memories is far different than their new library. My library was a vey quiet space with only the sound of the click of librarian shoe heels tapping along those tiles. I'm sure the new library was built with the hopes for a lively and energetic space. A very different place exists although it is the same neighborhood because of very different social, cultural, economic realities of our current time.

It takes a long time to grow young. - P. Picasso

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8/28/19 6:18 P

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Might it have something to do with the post-second world war economic prosperity that so many enjoyed? So many people weren't necessarily wealthy overnight, but enjoying comfort and few worries. Suburbs mushroomed -- all those Levittowns, havens of conformity in many ways, including design, come to think of it. The general population may have relished simplicity and its contentment?? Yes, no, maybe? War is good business; sit back and relax when its over and all will have been worthwhile. If we're all the same, making no waves, life looks good? .

Am I over the top here?

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PHEBESS's Photo PHEBESS Posts: 45,188
8/28/19 4:44 P

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Yup - everything was rote and inside the box.

I was never very good about staying inside the box.

"Dance as if no one is watching."


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ECOAGE's Photo ECOAGE Posts: 12,850
8/28/19 4:42 P

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I would take it a step further and say that we were all somewhat traumatized as children for being creative and expressive.

But maybe it was a reflection of our time. Was it the state-of-the-art for mid-century teaching in American urban public schools? We were taught how to multiply by memorizing the white multiplication card. Poems were recited by rote. Creativity wasn't highly valued. Self-expression was not prioritized.

It takes a long time to grow young. - P. Picasso

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PHEBESS's Photo PHEBESS Posts: 45,188
8/28/19 4:19 P

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Yeah, too many people are trained to think THEIR way is the ONLY way. Teachers in most areas are finally being taught that there are multiple ways to teach something, that hands-on practice in real-life situations helps students internalize the information leading to much better retention. And that there are multiple kinds of intelligence.

We're finally getting away from chalk and talk.

But we were all somewhat traumatized as children for being creative and expressive in ways outside the norm. Makes me sad as a teacher!

"Dance as if no one is watching."


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ECOAGE's Photo ECOAGE Posts: 12,850
8/28/19 1:42 P

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People don't know what they don't know. I would see the lack of awareness among skilled professionals all the time as an occupational therapist specializing in psychiatry who worked in a variety of settings including schools. Teachers, nurses, and physicians from primary schools to nursing homes! Basically, different people process information in different ways. Doodling, background music, pacing, rocking ... we all find our way but some are more socially acceptable than others when the environment (skilled professionals) have expectations for everyone to sit "nice and quiet". I think (hope) things are changing in the schools ... too slowly, but change is change. I would bring sensory processing tools into classrooms and teachers would quickly see a kiddo benefit from sitting on a big blue exercise ball instead of a traditional chair. The subtle sensory input of the body maintaining postural stability would allow for increased attention span and better concentration. Fidget toys worked for other kids. Sometimes a pad of scrap paper for doodling provided the OT magic.

It takes a long time to grow young. - P. Picasso

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8/28/19 7:13 A

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I suppose I can see a teacher's negative reaction if the drawing has nothing to do with the class, but, when it is relevant, leave the kid alone. Let the kid make connections. They're one of the ways to learn when one field of study or endeavor is related to another even if not obvious.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5ApYxkU-U

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD3DdskaPhs

Edited by: SYLPHINPROGRESS at: 8/28/2019 (07:14)
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PHEBESS's Photo PHEBESS Posts: 45,188
8/28/19 2:12 A

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What is it with teachers that they don't want students drawing other than during art class???? Some students draw to focus their listening, others draw when they finish the work and have some free time. Others draw something that's related to what they're reading about, but want to visualize it.

What is wrong with any of those things??

"Dance as if no one is watching."


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8/27/19 8:06 A

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During music class in Junior High (I think), the teacher played a recording of Ravel's "Bolero." It got me imagining a bullfight, so I started to draw a scene while listening. The teacher saw me, took the drawing as punishment, as though I'd been ignoring the purpose for being in the room.

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NUMD97's Photo NUMD97 Posts: 10,118
8/27/19 4:08 A

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Phebe, you reminded me of something I had discovered in fourth grade: I was drawing (probably at an inappropriate time) and was very pleased with how my drawing was coming out. My teacher snatched it and threw it away. When I lined up to go to her desk to have some work checked, when it came my turn, I dove under her desk to retrieve my carelessly discarded art work. You don't do that! She allowed it. Funny memory.

Edited by: NUMD97 at: 8/27/2019 (10:54)
Knowing is not enough. We must apply. Willing is not enough. We must do.
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Dare to dream.
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8/27/19 2:48 A

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I can't find photos of the original library as I remember it - the new incarnation has a similar shape but it looks like siding was put on over the old brick.

I never thought about what I'd fill my notebooks with - but I did get in trouble for drawing all over the covers of my workbooks in class.

"Dance as if no one is watching."


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8/26/19 9:59 P

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Maybe not as a little girl, but what a library that is now!

I'm not sure if I have the right novel or movie, but was there a scene at least in the movie version of Saroyan's "The Human Comedy" wherein a young boy (not Homer, though -- perhaps a friend?) is in a bookstore or library and agog at all the knowledge that must be contained within? Why am I picturing Carl Switzer in the role?

Ja! Google shows Alfalfa as a cast member!

Throughout elementary school, I was always agog over my new notebooks on the first day. I'd think about their being empty and how, as the school year went on, they'd be filled with all sorts of important things.

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ECOAGE's Photo ECOAGE Posts: 12,850
8/26/19 7:37 P

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Isn't it cool?!?! The outside of my library gives no indication of what's inside. Magical!!!

And I guess it's a good time to say that you can't judge a book by its cover!

I'll post a photo of the new and improved Mattapan Branch. I've never visited but I did speak to a librarian. My memory clearly sees a large glass case on a wood stand in a prominent corner of the lobby. Inside was a model of an all white building. I always thought it was sugar cubes! But it might have been marble. A DC monument? The Taj Mahal? I would love to know what it was made of and what it represented.

Laurie, I had trouble too. I found the pictures by googling only the address. Otherwise, any combination of words brought me to the new place. The award-winning Mattapan Branch Library is on the main street and my old library was on a side street which meant I could walk there by myself (not much traffic). I don't think little girl me would have found the same magic in this new library.











It takes a long time to grow young. - P. Picasso

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8/26/19 4:58 P

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Look at us sappy characters, getting weepy and wistful over our childhood libraries.

The interior of yours, Gail, looks far more spacious than you and the exterior indicate.

------------
Egads, I just phoned the "new" branch that replaced my double storefront decades ago to ask if any photos might be available. I was given the number for the main BPL "Brooklyn Collection" department. Alas, I got the message system, but will try gain. Maybe, that is, or maybe I'll come to my senses and move along.

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ECOAGE's Photo ECOAGE Posts: 12,850
8/26/19 1:53 P

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Many, many hours were spent choosing books from the shelves of the Mattapan Branch of the Boston Public Library. No idea which books went home with me or how I made the selections! I remember looking into the YA room from the lobby. I wasn't allowed into the Young Adults room until the day the librarians gave me permission and upgraded my library card from Children to YA.

The librarians knew my name (like the fake Boston bar). I loved everything about the place! It smelled like old paper. It was a small library by today's standards and it has been replaced by a lovely very large modern library. (Most of the buildings from my childhood have been replaced, converted, or burned down. Hooray! The building was saved and it is a Teen Center of The Boys & Girls Clubs.)







It takes a long time to grow young. - P. Picasso

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8/26/19 4:10 A

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I must have been about 10 when I started reading the children's mysteries. Alas, I recall nothing, no titles, authors or plots. My Nancy Drew reading was separate from those I took out of the library.

Our branch was a block or two away from the house and in a double storefront, one side adult, the other, children's. It was cozy and I knew the librarians. At some point, the branch moved to its own, new building half a mile away. I'd never been to it because I was buying books by then or transferred my affections to a larger branch, close enough, which was actually a "regional" location. Brooklyn Public Library was large enough to have some larger branch-HQ hybrids here and there. Maybe it offered more research opportunities than the regular branches. I don't really recall.

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PHEBESS's Photo PHEBESS Posts: 45,188
8/26/19 3:00 A

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I used to take my youngest brother to the library with me all the time - he'd sit in the little kid section and I'd browse the children's section. I remember when I was about 12, I had read most of the children's books I wanted to read, and started on the "young adults." Mostly mysteries by Mary Stewart, Phyllis Whitney, Victoria Holt. Mary Stewart was definitely the best of the three - but the librarian wouldn't let me check out Agatha Christie, she said I was too young.

"Dance as if no one is watching."


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8/25/19 8:23 P

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I'd think that the adults are the customers.

"Ramona Quimby, Age 8." Now, there was a kid. Well, at least she had more going for her than Dick and Jane and Tip's kids. She had dark hair -- an NYC kid, even though she lived in Oregon. I loved Beverly Cleary, but may have been too old for her later books. I read RQA8 as an adult when staying in a child's room as a house guest. Loved the book.

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NUMD97's Photo NUMD97 Posts: 10,118
8/25/19 2:07 P

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"Dick and Jane" has become a cottage industry:

www.etsy.com/listing/63204238
/1951-dic
k-and-jane-we-read-more-pictu
res?r
ef=shop_home_active_13


Edited by: NUMD97 at: 8/25/2019 (22:25)
Knowing is not enough. We must apply. Willing is not enough. We must do.
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8/25/19 6:50 A

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"Tip and Mitten" doesn't ring a bell, but I suppose that could be it. I wasn't even sure that I was correct in recalling Tip until, by chance, I met a woman who worked with the NYC schools and confirmed the name and that the book was still in use. She didn't mention Mitten, but that signifies nothing. All of those books have to have been updated since any of us was in school. They must have been frighteningly and tediously white bread.

I don't think I had to take books from a classroom library. What I recall is pestering my mother often to take me to the public library. We'd go often, as I was always reading. Heaven was being allowed to take 10 books for the summer, which I did when we'd go to the bungalow colony a day or two after school ended. 12 would have been better.

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PHEBESS's Photo PHEBESS Posts: 45,188
8/25/19 1:43 A

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I loved classroom libraries!

"Dance as if no one is watching."


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NUMD97's Photo NUMD97 Posts: 10,118
8/25/19 12:58 A

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In fourth grade we had to take out a book every Friday for the weekend from the classroom library. I loved the silhouette biographies.

Knowing is not enough. We must apply. Willing is not enough. We must do.
~ Goethe

Dare to dream.
~ Me


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8/25/19 12:39 A

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Another Dick, Jane, and Spot. Although I thought there was a cat named Mittens in there too.

"Dance as if no one is watching."


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8/24/19 11:45 P

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Seems "Tip" had a friend "Mitten":

www.amazon.com/Mitten-Reading-Meanin
g-
Paul-McKee/dp/B000KIA32C


I'm with Eco on this one: I, too, grew up with Dick, Jane and baby Sally.

Knowing is not enough. We must apply. Willing is not enough. We must do.
~ Goethe

Dare to dream.
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ECOAGE's Photo ECOAGE Posts: 12,850
8/24/19 10:59 P

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Putting a battery-powered dog collar on the neighborhood kids is probably not acceptable in most communities.

video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_y
lt
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Edited by: ECOAGE at: 8/24/2019 (23:05)
It takes a long time to grow young. - P. Picasso

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8/24/19 8:34 P

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Oh, I read it as zappers intended to keep neighbors' dogs and strays off the property. Wouldn't they work both ways? Zappers around the pool would keep neighbors' kids away, a good thing.

Pronounced SEE'ment pond.

[My father, a gentle man, would occasionally unleash uncharacteristic, warped humor. One example comes to mind, thanks to Gail: "Children should be hurt and not seen."]



Edited by: SYLPHINPROGRESS at: 8/24/2019 (20:36)
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8/24/19 7:18 P

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Zappers keep dogs from running into the street. The fences keep little kids from running into the large never-used built-in swimming pools ... or as Jethro and Granny would call it: the cement pond. They are intended to keep kids and dogs out of danger.

I never heard of Tip. My book had Spot. Dick and Jane had a little sister named Sally.

It takes a long time to grow young. - P. Picasso

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8/24/19 6:57 P

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Why not put zappers in the pools, too? Dogs like to swim.

emoticon


Remember you first-grade readers? "Spot" or "Tip?" Mine was the latter, so the kids were not named Dick and Jane. Anyway, growing up in Brooklyn, I couldn't guess where Tip's kids lived, with their white, frame house and white, picket fence and all that. Fast forward about two and one-half decades. I was traveling westward along I-80. When leaving the interstate for a rest stop in Iowa City, we drove through the streets toward wherever in town. We were riding on pretty residential streets of simple, not-large but large enough for families, white, frame houses with picket fences and manicured, small front yards. These were somewhat modest houses and well maintained. The streets were lined with lovely, large trees in full leaf. It hit me -- This is it. Spot and Tip and all the kids live in Iowa City. Just off the Univ of Iowa campus I noticed an establishment under the sign, "Chocolate Shop," another lost thing. I suppose it was the place that college students and H.S. students would congregate after class to talk and play the jukebox and whatall.

Edited by: SYLPHINPROGRESS at: 8/24/2019 (19:05)
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8/24/19 5:11 P

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The only fences around here are surrounding swimming pools. They are all a hideous shiny plastic faux white picket fence.

It takes a long time to grow young. - P. Picasso

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8/24/19 5:05 P

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I have Friend who for some odd reason between dogs forgot she had electronic fence. She had to pick that dog up for like 3 years to get him to leave the yard after that!

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8/24/19 5:04 P

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I didn't know that such a thing as zappers exist. What happened to fences?

LAURIE, NYC

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ECOAGE's Photo ECOAGE Posts: 12,850
8/24/19 4:33 P

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This makes me think of the underground zappers bordering the lawns of my suburban neighborhood. In theory, the pups get zapped and learn to stay off the street. In reality, the pups learn to stay on the front step and bark at everyone who walks by the house. Except for one sweet doggie who never got the concept and would be seen walking to the grassy circle of the cul de sac. I always wondered if she was surprised each time she was zapped. Or if she figured taking a walk because she felt like taking a walk was worth the zap.

It takes a long time to grow young. - P. Picasso

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8/24/19 1:51 A

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I'm trying to picture a BMI of 45 or more. I mean, I'd like to lose 50 or 60 lbs, and my BMI is nowhere near that. Yet my 50-60 lbs is considered "a little bit of weight"???????

"Dance as if no one is watching."


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NUMD97's Photo NUMD97 Posts: 10,118
8/23/19 11:37 A

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One might, if bills are coming due, and collection calls have started.

Knowing is not enough. We must apply. Willing is not enough. We must do.
~ Goethe

Dare to dream.
~ Me


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SYLPHINPROGRESS's Photo SYLPHINPROGRESS SparkPoints: (107,950)
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8/23/19 11:23 A

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Milgram's experiments were stunningly horrifying in the result and the conception.

The volunteers for this new food-thought device are desperate, wanting a magical solution and, yes, must be receiving quite a sum. The article is from a news source, not the developers-makers of the implant device. It states that the challenge is, in essence, to have the thing distinguish between thoughts of lettuce and thoughts of chocolate cake. All things are possible, but that degree of sophistication seems a stretch to this layperson.

Habit is a factor, too. The device may halt or decrease thoughts of food, but it won't necessarily halt reaching for it. Is "aversion therapy" the follow-up? Showing pictures of rats crawling over food and cigarettes being stuck into it? Shades of Room 101 and, as I recall, "A Clockwork Orange."

Having had lapband surgery 10 years ago, I'm thinking of this more in terms of long-term success than safety. Knowing that there is no magic path to weight-loss (as there is no royal road to geometry), -- and weighing risk v. success -- I wouldn't consider the brain implant under any circumstances.

LAURIE, NYC

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SPORTSPHOTOG's Photo SPORTSPHOTOG SparkPoints: (73,059)
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8/23/19 11:00 A

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I think we can all appreciate that desperation and I can clearly see it.

Sandy
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8/23/19 10:55 A

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and my thought was how desparate must these guys be to agree to do this

NUMD97's Photo NUMD97 Posts: 10,118
8/23/19 10:36 A

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I, too, wondered about the mental stability of the volunteers. Must pay a lot to be worthwhile.

I think there is a distinction being made about the types of food.

Milgram's experiments (saw it four times as a Psych Major in college) were incredibly thought provoking (they made his story into a movie). Long story short: With the proper incentives and motivation anyone can commit heinous crimes. (At least in theory.) It does not merely belong in the domain of the Nazis.

Edited by: NUMD97 at: 8/23/2019 (20:45)
Knowing is not enough. We must apply. Willing is not enough. We must do.
~ Goethe

Dare to dream.
~ Me


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8/23/19 10:17 A

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Reading Nu's brief intro made my mind flash on Stanley Milgram's experiments.

LAURIE, NYC

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BOSS61's Photo BOSS61 Posts: 6,657
8/23/19 10:14 A

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Makes me wonder about the mental stability of the volunteers. I mean brains for crying out loud!

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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8/23/19 10:12 A

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How the heck is that going to work? So when they think about eating a healthy meal, they get a shock? Or can the system detect when they're thinking of gorging on a pint of Haagen Daz? How Long before they die of starvation?

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NUMD97's Photo NUMD97 Posts: 10,118
8/23/19 9:38 A

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Stanford is conducting clinical trials with six volunteers who agreed to have an implantable device in the brain to control food cravings. When the person thinks about food, s/he receives a mild shock.

Reminds me of the learning experiments we did in college with mice.

www.thomasnet.com/insights/implant
-wou
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mail&campaign_type=thomas_
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tiu190822&am
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urce=thomas_industry_update&tinid=218491489


Link no longer goes to the page (now it does, but anyway):

Implant Would Shock Dieters Thinking About Food

By: Jeff Reinke

Researchers at Stanford University are looking into how an implantable computer chip designed to quell epileptic seizures could also be used to control over-eating.

The responsive neurostimulation system (RNS) is made by NeuroPace. It’s implanted into the brain and continuously records brain activity, delivering a mild electric shock whenever it detects a specific pattern of activity.

For those with epilepsy, that pattern was the onset of a seizure. For the morbidly obese, this would be when they think about food, as this shock is designed to pre-empt the undesirable response or activity.

The team has found six people who have agreed to take part in a clinical trial. The first six months will allow the RNS enough time to monitor brain activity and identify the pattern that signals the start of a food binge. Once that pattern is understood, then the shocks can start.

These individuals all have a body mass index of over 45, as the procedure is not intended for people who are trying to lose just a little bit of weight.

This approach differs from others that use an electrical implant in that it only delivers an electric current when the pattern of activity is detected, as opposed to a constant flow of electricity.

This approach also focuses on a different part of the brain -- the nucleus accumbens, which is located in the brain's pleasure center, as opposed to the hypothalamus, which controls hormone levels associated with feelings of hunger and satisfaction.

One of the primary challenges will be separating the brain's response to unhealthy foods from its reaction to fruits, vegetables and other healthy options.



Edited by: NUMD97 at: 8/23/2019 (20:44)
Knowing is not enough. We must apply. Willing is not enough. We must do.
~ Goethe

Dare to dream.
~ Me


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