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GWYNANNE1's Photo GWYNANNE1 Posts: 4,264
9/4/19 6:38 A

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too much information for me to take in right now. will process this later on in the day

PROVERBS31JULIA's Photo PROVERBS31JULIA Posts: 5,878
9/3/19 11:51 P

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Regarding Israel and United States Connection - for some reason, this reminds me of a concert I attended a few years ago, when Israeli singer Dudu Fisher was in Branson, MO when we went for Sukkoth. At one point, he was singing American patriotic songs as well as Israeli patriotic songs. Actually, that was pretty much the entire concert, in retrospect. In any case, at one point they displayed this big sign or maybe a graphic on their screens, and it was the word
"JerUSAlem" where the USA was highlighted in different colors and type (pretty much all red white and blue, as far as that goes, but I don't remember the specific color combinations in this particular graphic.). I've seen it since then, so I'm pretty sure it didn't originate with him, but it did seem interesting to me to notice that particular juxtaposition of Jerusalem and USA.

So anyway. That's a side circus to the original article.

She girds herself with strength, And strengthens her arms.
Proverbs 31:17


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PHEBESS's Photo PHEBESS Posts: 45,209
8/28/19 2:00 A

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Absolutely agreed.

"Dance as if no one is watching."


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NUMD97's Photo NUMD97 Posts: 10,122
8/27/19 3:10 P

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Yes it is every nations inalienable right. Except Israel’s. Israel is the blatant exception in the eyes of the world. Even when Israel shows tge proof of doctored footage of Israel’s attacks in Gaza and all those indefensible people laid out on stretchers. Until the cameras stop rolling and they are photographed getting off stretchers. The sad thing is those Arabs are pawns to their government, and that’s why it remains festering for over 70 years. Wasn’t “supposed” to happen this way. The ‘48 War was to be a few short weeks. That worked out really well for those who listened to their leadership to evacuate for a “short while.”

Shame, really.

Knowing is not enough. We must apply. Willing is not enough. We must do.
~ Goethe

Dare to dream.
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8/27/19 1:05 P

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isnt that every sovereign nations right - do what they need to do to protect their people? not sure at what point you draw a line of it'll help the people but hurt the world but so far israel is not there!


NUMD97's Photo NUMD97 Posts: 10,122
8/27/19 4:45 A

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Israel will always do what it feels is necessary to protect its own people, regardless of what the world thinks.

Some things, like basic survival, are just not open for discussion.



Knowing is not enough. We must apply. Willing is not enough. We must do.
~ Goethe

Dare to dream.
~ Me


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PHEBESS's Photo PHEBESS Posts: 45,209
8/27/19 2:39 A

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I know, right?

"Dance as if no one is watching."


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NUMD97's Photo NUMD97 Posts: 10,122
8/26/19 3:52 A

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Imagine that: A sovereign nation not taking the dictates of another country. What a concept!

Knowing is not enough. We must apply. Willing is not enough. We must do.
~ Goethe

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PHEBESS's Photo PHEBESS Posts: 45,209
8/26/19 3:20 A

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I've tried explaining to other people that Israel is an ALLY which means a friendly nation to the US - but that that doesn't mean the USA gets to tell Israel what to do all the time.

And somehow, people don't quite understand that.

"Dance as if no one is watching."


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NUMD97's Photo NUMD97 Posts: 10,122
8/26/19 12:29 A

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Israel has to be self-reliant. Their existence depends on it.

Knowing is not enough. We must apply. Willing is not enough. We must do.
~ Goethe

Dare to dream.
~ Me


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8/25/19 11:57 P

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agree ladies. that am glad israel is here and the theory we are the insurance. but we are also what is keeping israel going a bit. but really, they need us more than we need them, as countries. they are the closest thing we have to an allywe can trust. and we dont. and because we've screwed them over, they have had to take strong measures. and they now have their leadership issues. man i'm glad i dont have to deal with the politics of israel and america!

NUMD97's Photo NUMD97 Posts: 10,122
8/25/19 8:27 P

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Yes, I had heard that theory as well. No one supports Israel more than American Jews (money always talks).

But the way the world is trending, and so vocally antisemitic, I, for one, am mighty glad Israel exists.

Knowing is not enough. We must apply. Willing is not enough. We must do.
~ Goethe

Dare to dream.
~ Me


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PHEBESS's Photo PHEBESS Posts: 45,209
8/25/19 7:53 P

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The Tisha B'Av sit-ins were, I believe, organized in part by 350, or maybe it was Bend the Arc. I receive emails from both, and received info about the protests. The closest one to us was in Seattle, 90 miles south - so we didn't go. Had there been something here in Bellingham, we might have.

So why were the people arrested at the Amazon sit-in? Were they asked to leave by Amazon staff, and thus were considered trespassing? Did Amazon staff call the police? Seems odd that people would be protesting in a store or headquarters and arrested for anything other than trespassing, but maybe I'm confused.

And while I agree with Nu that Israel is our safe haven, should anything occur in this country that would force out the Jewish Americans (or American Jews), there's another school of thought that I've read about. Those of us living in the Galut, the Diaspora, are sort of the insurance policy. We always have been. Prior to the 1948 division of "Palestine" and the creation of Israel and world-wide acceptance (sort of) of the nation, there were more Jews living outside Israel than within the country. Should anything ever happen to the Jews of Israel, we need Jewish people living outside Israel, in other countries, in order to perpetuate the continuation of Judaism. Not saying I agree or disagree, just putting it out there.

But I've always felt that, given our history and all the groups that have tried to destroy us, it's pretty miraculous in this day and age to be a Jewish person.



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8/25/19 1:33 P

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There was also a demonstration down the road from me at one of the local prisions. It was not well advertised (as i would have gone). but it was there. here's part of the aricle. wonder if it was nationally organized - and why so quietly?



Each year during the Jewish holiday of Tishah bAv, followers of the religion take time to reflect on the atrocities and disasters that have happened to the Jewish people during their history.

Sunday afternoon outside the Howard County Detention Center, members of Marylands Jewish community joined pro-immigration advocacy groups to signify that the Trump administrations family separation and detention policies are an atrocity worthy of the same mourning and prayer.

This has been a moment of consciousness-raising, Rabbi Ariana Katz said. Many Jews have immigration stories from Eastern Europe.

Hundreds gathered to protest the countys agreement with Immigration and Customs Enforcement and block officials from bringing in anyone for deportation purposes.

It was one of a number of protests held throughout the country on the Jewish holiday over the weekend. Nearly 100 protesters were arrested in Manhattan on Saturday after demonstrators shut down part of a busy roadway

NUMD97's Photo NUMD97 Posts: 10,122
8/25/19 10:30 A

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Interesting. I never saw the coverage of the Amazon sit-in. Quite a propos of the meaning of Tisha B’av.

Elie Wiesel felt very strongly that as Jews we need to support those who could not speak out. I agree.

And, yes, as Trump pushes boldly with his agenda to divide us even further, we need to speak out.

But I don’t feel it’s an “either / or” situation: Right or wrong, Israel, if it ever becomes necessary, is the ultimate haven for Jews. Anyone who believes otherwise, especially with all the overt anti-semitism being expressed all over Europe these days, is quite naive.



Knowing is not enough. We must apply. Willing is not enough. We must do.
~ Goethe

Dare to dream.
~ Me


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BOSS61's Photo BOSS61 Posts: 6,657
8/25/19 8:51 A

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By Michelle Goldberg. Reprinted in the clear with the expressed written permission of no one.

On Aug. 11, more than 1,000 people marked Tisha BAv, the saddest day in the Jewish calendar, by occupying an Amazon Books store in Manhattan, protesting the technology behemoths technical support for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Sitting on the floor, they read harrowing accounts of people in immigration detention and recited the Kaddish, the traditional Jewish prayer of mourning. One of their signs said, Never again means never again.

According to organizers, 44 people, including 12 rabbis and a member of New Yorks City Council, were arrested. It was one of over 50 Jewish-organized demonstrations against ICE held across the country that day.

A few days later, a corrections officer drove a truck into a row of Jewish protesters who were blocking the entrance to a private prison in Rhode Island where migrants are being detained. Two of the protesters were hospitalized. That demonstration was one of at least 38 organized this summer by Never Again Action, a decentralized group formed two months ago to engage in nonviolent direct action against immigrant detention.

Donald Trump might have thought he was going to lure Jewish voters to the Republican Party with his lock-step alliance with the Israeli right. Instead, by attempting to use American Jews as mascots for an administration that fills most of them with horror, he has spurred a renaissance on the Jewish left.


New progressive Jewish groups are forming. Older ones, like New Yorks Jews for Racial and Economic Justice, one of the forces behind the Amazon action, are growing; once-sleepy organizing meetings have become standing room only. Jewish Currents, a left-wing Jewish publication founded almost 75 years ago, was reborn last year with a new cadre of writers and editors who speak to the millennial socialist zeitgeist.

Obviously, American Jews have long leaned liberal, and have always been over represented in progressive movements. But theres a difference between leftists who happen to be Jewish and explicitly Jewish left-wing activism. People who may not have been that close to Jewishness, they feel suddenly like its very important to express who they are as Jews in the context of their activism and in the context of their collective memory, said Arielle Angel, the editor of Jewish Currents.

Alyssa Rubin, a 25-year-old organizer with Never Again Action, told me that in college, she had little interest in Jewish communal life, much of which seemed to revolve around support for Israel. But in the months leading up to the 2016 election, as Trump spouted rhetoric that smacked of fascism and white nationalists grew giddy at their new relevance, I had never thought about my Judaism more, she said. For the first time, anti-Semitism seemed an immediate, urgent threat.

For Jews on the left, fear has been magnified by insult as Trump, the man who helped unleash a new wave of Antisemitism, posed as the Jews savior because of his devotion to the Israeli right.

Its infuriating and intolerable, said Sophie Ellman-Golan, 27, the former director of communications and digital outreach at the Womens March organization, who is now working on a project to mobilize Jews against white nationalism. Because the right purports to defend Jews even as it pursues policies that most Jews abhor, she argued, its imperative that we loudly speak for ourselves because if we dont the loudest voices that claim to speak on behalf of Jews will be right-wing evangelical Christians.

There are, of course, plenty of established Jewish groups that make it their mission to speak for the community. But its hard to overstate the degree to which left-wing Jews feel alienated from and betrayed by the Jewish establishment, which often seems more concerned with left-wing anti-Zionism and rhetorical overkill than with right-wing white nationalism.

Never Again Action was born in reaction to the perceived failures of mainstream Jewish organizations to stand up to Trump. In June, after Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez referred to migrant detention camps as concentration camps, establishment Jewish outfits like the Jewish Community Relations Council rushed to condemn her. Rubin was incredulous. A militantly xenophobic government is building internment camps for members of ethnic out-groups, and Jewish leaders worried that critics of this project were disrespecting the memory of the Holocaust?

That compounded the outrage that a lot of Jews were feeling, that a mainstream Jewish institution would say something that just felt so out of touch, she said. That in part led us to really want to not just say in words, but actually take action to show how the Jewish community actually feels about this moment.

People involved in the new Jewish left recognize that left-wing anti-Semitism exists. But they generally dont believe its a threat on par with right-wing Jew hatred.

No political party or movement is free of anti-Semitism, said Ellman-Golan, who had to deal with the fallout from anti-Semitism at the Womens March. But, she said, only one political party is quite literally inciting white nationalists to shoot up our synagogues, drive cars into our peaceful protests, mail bombs to members of our community, burn black churches and mosques, and open fire on Latinx people.

The Jewish left rejects the idea that anti-Zionism is equivalent to anti-Semitism, but even more than that, it rejects the idea that Israel is the guarantor of Jewish safety or the lodestar of Jewish identity. A central value of Jews for Racial and Economic Justice, as well as for much of left-wing Jewish culture more broadly, is doikayt, a Yiddish term that means hereness.

Where we are is our home. This is what we fight for. This is where we seek kinship, said Audrey Sasson, JFREJs executive director. The first post-relaunch issue of Jewish Currents featured an essay by the publisher, Jacob Plitman, called On an Emerging Diasporism, which likewise celebrated the value of hereness.

For those primarily concerned about Jewish life in the diaspora, Israel, which has courted anti-Semitic nationalist leaders in Europe, isnt really an ally, much less an ideal. And Trump, who always speaks of American Jews as if they belong there, is a grotesque enemy. He tells Jews committed to life in America that they owe loyalty to Israel, which he sometimes calls, when speaking to American Jews, your country. He says this, and expects Jews to react with gratitude.

Instead, many are reacting with a redoubled commitment to multiracial democracy and solidarity. Jews have been taking to the streets because no amount of support for a foreign country can redeem what hes doing to this one.



"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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