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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,251
6/25/17 2:19 P

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Elizabeth (MEADSBAY),
on other Keto teams I've run into some by folks who eat more protein than the daily minimum. Eating more like 120 grams of protein a day, and saying they have no problem with it.

However, my personal opinion is that the body only needs so much protein for using as building blocks, and like money, when you have very little you spend it on the essentials, when you have more you can spend it on luxuries. My mental analogy is that the daily minimum of protein is used for structure (the essentials) and excess protein is just burned as fuel. The process is gluconeogenesis, which makes carbs from protein. Most folks won't notice that as insulin kicks in to manage blood sugar. But insulin is a fat storage hormone.

So my opinion is that too much protein is like eating extra carbs, and we should all know what that does.

P.S. There are actually 4 sources of calories:
- carbs
- fat
- protein
- alcohol

Neither fat nor alcohol impact blood sugar at all. So pure alcohol doesn't impact ketosis, like in Vodka. However as alcohol is a poison, the body must burn that first to get rid of it, before it burns any other fuel, so alcohol slows weight loss. I myself had a fair bit of alcohol a few years ago, and eating Keto I was very alcohol intolerant. My wife was very concerned as I got very fuzzy... just sat in a corner, smiling, and didn't talk much. I certainly had moments of not remember the party. She was thinking of calling an ambulance, as she thought I was going to go into a diabetic coma or something. But we took my blood sugar and it was normal, despite the alcohol clearly being drunk. She just put me to bed. The next day I was OK, and surprisingly had almost no hangover.

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 6/25/2017 (14:27)
Alberta, Canada

All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)

 current weight: 169.0 
MEADSBAY's Photo MEADSBAY Posts: 14,710
6/25/17 11:43 A

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Thank you, James...I appreciate the review of all this info...I learn so much each time.
For example...looks like I have been eating too much protein!
Will reduce for a week or two and see if that gets me moving again.
Although I think my problem is alcohol...feel a need for a nightly drink...try to chooose vodka (with diet cranberry juice) instead of wine to save carbs.


*I will never~ever~ever give up!

 current weight: 181.0 
SIMCYN's Photo SIMCYN Posts: 2,495
6/25/17 10:58 A

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You were losing Holly... not happening again?

central standard time, Iowa
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6/25/17 10:51 A

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Thank you James. I am really frustrated right now...and this refocused me. I really appreciate it!!

Northern NY

 Pounds lost: 141.0 
-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,251
6/25/17 10:17 A

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This post got "lost" under Keto newbies, where newness to Keto became the topic, not the science of eating this way.

This "essay" is scientific look at eating Keto, especially to have a little ammunition, or perhaps a shield, when some tells you that you are eating a fad diet, and it's unhealthy because....

What I'm writing also has a weight loss focus. Enjoy.

So what does a body really need for good health? It needs sufficient calories, it needs "essential" amino acids, and it needs "essential" fats, and it needs nutrients. In the dietary sense "essential" means you need to get them from food, you can't transform other things into them. There are many amino acids, not all of them are essential because the body can transform others into them. But some amino acids must simply be obtained from food. What the heck is all this chemistry stuff? Well protein when digested breaks down into amino acids. So in short you need to eat protein.

You can do your own research on how much protein you need each day as a dietary MINIMUM. The government suggests minimum values for good health. That number ends up being about 50 to 80 grams a day. Here is one such minimum guideline on protein at 50 grams.

Here to, at 0.36 grams of protein per day for each pound of body ideal body weight:

In such calculations you need to use the body weight you think you should be at. If you are significantly overweight and use your current weight then your calculation will be too high.

Here is a link to a page on amino acids, and note the word "essential" on that page:

The body also needs "essential" fats. In other words you need to eat a certain amount of fat in your diet. Here is a link to a page on fatty acids, and again the word "essential" on that page:

The recommended minimum value here is about 65 grams:

Lastly here is a page on carbohydrates:

You may note that under the section titled "Nutrition", about half way through it says:
"Carbohydrates are a common source of energy in living organisms; however, no carbohydrate is an essential nutrient in humans." I'm sure you've heard the phrase "empty" calories. It means empty of nutrition, or any building blocks your body needs, but high on calories. So a low carb or even lower, a Keto diet keeps the protein, keeps the fats, and cuts out just the nutritionally empty high carb things.

So what is the big deal about carbohydrates and weight loss? Well carbohydrates raise blood sugar, raised blood sugar produces an insulin reaction. The insulin is involved in getting the blood sugar into the cells to be used for energy, but any excess is stored into body fat. Insulin has a nickname, the fat storage hormone:

You actually get hungry with all that fat. Your body doesn't easily dip into its reserves. Why not? It is an evolutionary advantage to fatten up when times are good (summertime) and then be ready for winter. Think of bears, they fatten up in the summer, getting ready for winter. Are they thinking "I got to fatten up for winter"? No, they are just hungry and insulin is locking up all the fat they continually put on in excess during the summer.

So a Keto diet is really just a winter time diet. With global trade, and stockpiles of carbs that our ancestors didn't have, we are in a perpetual summertime, high carb time, so what happens ... we keep packing on the pounds.

Let your natural winter time start. It takes a few days for body chemistry to switch to fat burning mode. You are hungry and weak for a few days, but then you can finally access those reserves, and with much less hunger.

So if you decide to Eat Keto, how do you do it? First, virtually any meat is low carb, just watch the sauces, like sweet barbeque sauce on ribs. Second, there are complicated lists of vegetables on any low carb or Keto website. Hard to memorize. I just stick to a simple 6% guideline. If the fruit or vegetable is 6% net carbs by weight (or less) then eat it. What fruit is 6% or less? Strawberries, raspberries, and blackberries.

Where does the 6% cutoff come from? The Ideal Protein diet had a list of "allowed" foods, and not "allowed" foods. I tried to understand what might make the difference in the lists and that was essentially it. Plus it let me figure out what to do about foods on neither list, where I didn't know if it was "allowed" or not.

Read your food labels, figure out what makes the cut. If it has no label, like say watermelon, then google "nutritiondata watermelon". By using the nutritiondata website I've already calculated the percentages for a number of foods so that you don't have to, see the first post in this spark people discussion:

The website "nutritiondata" also has a lot of information about generic and brand name foods, and provides that information in a consistent format for you. Just google "nutritiondata watermelon" to easily find their information. On the watermelon page you can just set the serving size to 100 grams and easily read off the grams of carbs with a lot less calculations on your part. Then 6 or fewer grams of carbs is 6% or less too.

Fuhrman has an interesting equation:

Since high carb things tend to have low nutrients they score poorly on this scale, with sugar the worst of all, no nutrients, just pure calories. A somewhat fuzzy equation, but my favourite example is vitamin C. A green pepper has more vitamin C per calorie than oranges do. So to get your vitamin C, at the least "cost", eat green peppers.

You still need to eat fewer calories than you burn in order to loose body fat. You need a reason to dip into those reserves. The difference with Keto is that your body fat is not locked up by insulin, and you dip into it easier, with less hunger.

OK, the 6% guideline is nice, but if you want to count your daily grams of carbs, how low should it be, to be officially low carb and seriously unlock body fat? I think the answer is about 30, maybe some people can still loose weight at 70 or so, but not easily.

Fat you eat has no insulin reaction. So it doesn't lock down body fat with insulin. So fatty meats, or cheese are OK, but dietary fat has plenty of calories and slows weight loss, it doesn't however wake the carbohydrate hunger dragon.

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 6/25/2017 (10:38)
Alberta, Canada

All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)

 current weight: 169.0 
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