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_RAMONA's Photo _RAMONA Posts: 25,756
8/16/19 12:25 A

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@PROVERBS31JULIA Aww, Julia... too bad the cookies were a disappointment. If it makes you feel better, I'd likely have had a similar experience... not cravngs so much, but destabilized BG control. I appreciate you fielding that grenade for me, LOL.
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RE: "insulin response and having that going on while still having "low blood sugar"" is absolutely true for me, and for anyone who has PCOS or Endometriosis (it's now considered that insulin disregualtion is behind many fertility issues).... because insulin is the master hormone. As far as getting a good handle on the dynamic, you may appreciate this book (helped me immensely):



...and here's another place to start:

The Definitive Guide to Insulin, Blood Sugar & Type 2 Diabetes (and you’ll understand it)
www.marksdailyapple.com/diab
etes/


You can certainly be forgiven for not realizing that insulin is a hormone... no one has ever talked about it in these terms until now (well, except for the Ancestral community... it's the basis for the whole metabolic flexibility angle). Speaking of which:



The Primal Blueprint Carbohydrate Curve
www.marksdailyapple.com/the-p
rimal-car
bohydrate-continuum/


Not everyone has to go as low as keto carb levels to have successful weight loss or experience metabolic healing in general. Face it, anhyone who is eating upwards of 300+ grams of carb a day is going to experience a significant improvement by lowering daily carb levels to 100 grams. The levels in the chart above have been proven to be a dependable measure of an average person's carb response, and support that doctor's assertions. Also the less metabolic damage to begin with, the higher carb level possible to achice the same effects. It's not unusual for athletes to be able to maintian ketosis at 50-100 grams of carb a day.

For myself I find that the longer I am keto the higher my own carb threshold goes... my carb tolerance has increasedquite a lot.

Bottom line: every body is different, and each person has to take the 'rules' and test them against theri own meatbolic repsonse. For myself, I'm aiming for the the least restrictive way of eating that will still allow me to achieve my health and weight goals.

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Edited by: _RAMONA at: 8/16/2019 (14:01)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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8/14/19 6:26 P

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Thanks for the review Julia!! i am one that loves coconut, but know so many that hate it or dont tolerate it well so thats good to know.

The copy and paste i did was from Clinical Nutritionist Kimmi Katte...you can see the original post on her Facebook page, contact her, she is with Nutritional Synergy. As i said before..i just found the information interesting. I am constantly reading, searching, finding the most up to date information I can.

when i started keto it was 30 g carbs max. then the research started. in my reading and research (i was trying desparately to find ANYTHING telling me keto was bad..i have never much enjoyed the food, i didnt believe i would feel better or lose weight) i found numbers ranging up to 50 but never saw higher.
but as i tell people in my classes..if you look hard enough you can find anything to say what you want it to say.
I'm sure i was eating far MORE than 300 g carbs a day. like your stepdad. i never drank sugary sodas, but i ate whatever i was baking, baked bread daily from september through april for myself (a small boule that probably should have lasted me 2 or 3 days but i had one a day) lots of potatos and carrots and corn..and popcorn. and fruit was my staple....
and meat was a condiment. small, small amounts. so i was really packing away the carbs...and the 30 i started with was hell for me. thank goodness it passes fast!!

if you find where you read that please post..i'd love to read it. While i have myself under control now..i sure would have loved to have seen that then!!!

Edited by: NIGHTSKYSTAR at: 8/14/2019 (18:26)
Holly
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PROVERBS31JULIA's Photo PROVERBS31JULIA Posts: 5,729
8/14/19 5:51 P

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I'm still not quite understanding how to actually "measure" my insulin, but from what I am reading, I sense that is what is going on. I ordered the iThrive DVD's and transcripts from Jon McMahan just random guy recovering from obesity and diabetes. Some of the doctors on that series (in the few episodes I've seen so far) have discussed insulin response and having that going on while still having "low blood sugar" - which seems to resonate with me.

The cookies are not "Mom's Cookies", of course, and the first ones I tried, the Chocolate Chip, I could immediately taste the coconut inside. Not everyone likes or can handle coconut, I get that - just pointing it out if it is an ingredient some choose to avoid. In my case it was like "Hello Coconut, My old friend" (singy songy to Simon & Garfunkle's "Sounds of Silence"), and I'm sure it was in the other flavors but I quickly didn't notice it as much.

However, I was rather disappointed to notice the "sweet" taste - for me - did sort of trip the craving for more! I don't need that kind of "help". The two cookies together are one serving, and in one sense they are quite filling and satisfying. But then I ended up eating another package because I was wanting more of the "sweet taste". So nooo, I myself, in my current condition with the hormones all out of whack, can't afford to buy more of these (afford in the sense of not good for my body - afford the extra calories from eating them merely because they tripped the sugar sweet center - not necessarily price, although they weren't exactly cheap.).

But... we're all different. Ya'll will need to make your own decisions, and sounds like some already know what works and doesn't work for them. More power to ya!
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Side note: I hadn't realized until listening to the segment featuring Dr. Jason Fung on the iThrive series that Insulin was considered a hormone!! I had NO idea! The only hormones I knew of were estrogen, progesterone and testosterone! Who knew? apparently everyone else but me.

And I can't remember what I was reading recently or a video? can not think right now what the source is, but somewhere recently I was learning that "low carb" - or some, to start with, (if the 20 grams is too difficult) could be as much as 100 grams of carbs as an appropriate place to start. The doctor commenting on this said basically that the average American eats more than 300 grams of (mostly processed junk food crappy ) carbohydrates, so 100 grams of good quality carbs would technically be under the definition of "low carb" since 100 grams is lower than 300+ (and remembering what my late stepdad drank and ate in the average day, I'm sure he was hitting 400-600 grams a day!! So many soda pops and donuts and starchy breads etc!!).

So s/he (the doctor) felt like 100 grams or less of the low glycemic, high fiber veggies, good quality veggie starch - just a well rounded balance of plant based carbs - lots of greens, some fruits, some root veggies, etc would be appropriate for some who are older and have more of a hormone imbalance (I'm guessing it was referring to the insulin response being so super high? Wish I could remember who it was and where it was I saw or read this?).

It's all a work in process and researching is an interesting part, trying out new products... happy to fall on that grenade for you!! (maybe not a good thing for me... but I always like trying something "new".).






She girds herself with strength, And strengthens her arms.
Proverbs 31:17


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8/14/19 3:13 P

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Wow Ramona! If you have a problem with me feel free to message me and I’ll answer anything!
I will find the link..the article came in my email and as I said I found it interesting.
No need for you to be nasty. I didn’t diss anyone, didn’t say I don’t use sweeteners, didn’t say no one else should, just presented information I found interesting. Sorry if that offended you.


Holly
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_RAMONA's Photo _RAMONA Posts: 25,756
8/14/19 2:52 P

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@NIGHTSKYSTAR ...

Holly, if you ever actually read CAREFULLY you would note that I acknowledged everything you just said in my post... I just don't feel it necessary to beat people over the head with information that may/may not apply to them.

Everyone who has spent any amount of time on any keto SparkTeam is more than fully aware of your particular challenges with regard to weight loss (many of which I happen to share, in addition to food sensitivities)... you never miss an opportunity to bring the conversation back to your specific needs. We heard you the first time... this product won't work for YOU.

The reality is that not everyone has to be as careful as you or I eating keto to continue to get results... and not everyone is able to wrap their heads around a hyper-vigilant keto approach right off. It's a perfectly good strategy to work one's way into keto and slowly discover how keto will fit/work for you, personally.

Net carbs is still a perfectly acceptable measure... and is a good place to start... it all depends on your own individual BG response. People should not be made to feel badly for wanting to explore the width and breadth of keto approaches and food options. People are here for all sorts of medical reasons, not just weight loss.

The OP is looking to explore a potential new product that may work for some AS AN OPTIONAL TREAT, not a daily food group... there is nothing harmful about the product she is suggesting to a well-formulated and balanced keto approach... in fact it could be that one little easy thing that supports someone in ultimately achieving their goals.

How exactly would it hurt you to be encouraging and actually helpful for a change? How about making it more about the OP on any given thread than about you?
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P.S.. SparkPeople also asks that we link back to original articles so people can read for themselves. Without the link/source, I have absolutely no way of judging for myself if your 'evidence' is relevant to my own journey.


P.P.S. Your insistence on only ever considering total carbs still leaves these cookies at 4-7 grams of carbs per serving (erythritol is not absorbed by the body so it has to be subtracted... not everyone is here to lose weight)... still a reasonable keto TREAT if you're not overly carb sensitive, or artificial sweetener sensitive.



Edited by: _RAMONA at: 8/14/2019 (15:17)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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NIGHTSKYSTAR's Photo NIGHTSKYSTAR SparkPoints: (665,840)
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8/14/19 2:31 P

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Ramona many of us do total carbs only, not net, so these would be a no for us. there is a really interesting article out on sweeteners and the pros and cons that i found really interesting. this is a copy and paste of that article..

I looked immediately at where the carbs were coming from. most of the experts now agree that a carb is a carb is a carb and net carbs are not the way to go. As always, its a personal choice, though. If you can reach your health goals with net carbs, lucky you! I wish i could. Unfortunately for me, my body doesnt work that way. Heres the article..


"Are you combining ANY kind of sweetener or sugar substitute with your ketogenic diet?

If so, just keep in mind that the message you're sending to your fat cells is to "stay locked down, don't release body fat".

If that's your goal, keep going!

However if you're shooting for body fat release, ditch the sweetener. All sweeteners elicit a cephalic phase insulin response in the body - this is when sweet flavoured foods cause the body to release insulin. Consuming fat alongside a sweet flavour slows down (and in a lot of cases, halts) body fat loss. Do stevia, xylitol, monk fruit, and erythritol fall into this category? YES. It's because they taste sweet.

If you know for certain that your body is sensitive to insulin (a fasting insulin test will tell you that information) you could use a blood glucose meter to help you determine how much of an insulin response you're getting with ingestion of sweeteners. If you don't know for certain that your body is sensitive to insulin, i'd err on the side of caution and ditch the sweeteners.

If for some reason you have NO self-control and MUST have sweeteners, i would not be combining them with dietary fat if you want to lose body fat.

Food is information for your body. Food tells the cells in your body how to behave. Eat smart."

Holly
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_RAMONA's Photo _RAMONA Posts: 25,756
8/14/19 2:23 P

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@PROVERBS31JULIA ... thanks for the share... I would like to know if you think the taste is worth it.
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I, too, went and looked at website... at first I couldn't figure out how so many high-profile Keto experts were lauding these as a legitimate keto treat when every one of the cookies is listed as having 18-20 grams total carbs and only 3 grams fibre... that isn't keto by any stretch; yet looking at the actual ingredients, I also couldn't figure out where all of those carbs where coming from. I bake with all of the same stuff, and it's all fibre/fat/protein. Also, how can they keep saying each serving is only 4 grams net carbs if it really isn't? WTH?!?!?

...but then by reading more closely I realized the nutrition labels are including (as many manufacturers do) the erythritol in the initial (total) carb count... yet, because erythritol is not absorbed by the body and has no BG impact for most people it's subtracted, along with the fiber, to get net carbs (also a common industry standard).

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So, in reality, each serving of cookie is really TRULY only 2-4 grams net carbs.
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I wouldn't hesitate to include these in my kiddo's lunch, and I would eat them occasionally as a treat for myself, likely with little impact to my BG/BK readings... though I wouldn't want to test their claim that you can eat the whole box and still be okay as far a ketosis is concerned, LOL.

Anyone who is susceptible to monk fruit and especially sensitive to carbs needs to test their own individual BG response... monk fruit and high total carbs can trigger an insulin response (which impedes weight loss) and ramp up cravings... though it still won't necessarily knock you out of ketosis.

This product is really a lesson in label reading when it comes to advertised/commercial keto products... you have look at ingredients AND the nutrition facts (carbs) and then usually do some reading between the lines.

Also, because everyone's metabolism reacts differently to various keto-approved sweeteners, it's generally advisable to test your response to a commercial product before you consume it regularly. Even though they are within an acceptable carb limit, these cookies would not have worked for me with regard to weight loss... while I'd likely stay in ketosis, I also likely would not lose any weight. My body does not appreciate artificial anything, LOL.

Anyway, thanks again for the share, and do come back and tell us how you think they taste! Hopefully they're worth the cost/effort.
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Another product you may want to check out are the Nush cakes:


nushfoods.com/products/

About the size of your palm, really clean ingredients (better than the Nui), FILLING, and truly tasty (six flavours). I buy these for my kiddo for emergency snacks... and occasionally have one myself, LOL.



Edited by: _RAMONA at: 8/14/2019 (15:20)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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8/13/19 6:02 P

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i looked up the chocolate chip and it said 19 g carb for a 2 cookie serving. thats my entire day...for 2 cookies. not for me.
Just looked at all flavors..all are between 18 and 20 g carb in a two cookie serving.
I'd be very, very wary of these.
thanks for posting though. i get the offers on facebook all the time and was tempted to look into them. glad i didnt give in..

Holly
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PROVERBS31JULIA's Photo PROVERBS31JULIA Posts: 5,729
8/13/19 4:56 P

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I got some sort of offer online for these new cookies - so I decided to humor both parties involved and order a Variety box - two each of each flavor:

Double Chocolate Cookie
Chocolate Chip Cookie
Peanut Butter Cookie
Snickerdoodle Cookie



I’m surprised they didn’t put all the nutritional info on each box. Instead, they are on each package. Some phones may be able to zoom in and read closer but those on PC’s or laptops might not. Never fear - I plan to upload the info into Food Tracker.


m

(I took the precaution of editing each photo and spinning and saving them, so hopefully it won’t upload all whamperjawed upside down or on the side!).

I think I will post this also in my blog and then, after awhile, when I have gotten other errands done, I can comment as to how they taste and the prices...

She girds herself with strength, And strengthens her arms.
Proverbs 31:17


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