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KELLY_ZC's Photo KELLY_ZC Posts: 34
2/10/20 3:26 P

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Interesting, KD. I will have to check out this doctor you wrote about.

I know my body needs a super low carb diet. I love veggies & salads. My hopes were dashed yesterday when we went for lunch at Cracker Barrel. I ordered the grilled chicken salad with ranch dressing & no croutons. I thought it was safe because I used to eat it all the time doing Atkins. I skipped most of the cherry tomatoes (they don't taste good this time of year) and a few short hours later my knuckles began to swell & feel sore. IT'S A SALAD!
This morning when I woke I couldn't make a fist. emoticon emoticon
I'm fasting today to get rid of the inflammation and at hour 18 my hands feel SO much better. I can make a fist and only feel slight soreness.
Guess I'm just born to be a meat eater.

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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 6,113
2/10/20 7:14 A

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Kelly I was listening to Dr. Ken Berry on a podcast the other day, and he said that carnivore was just a subset of keto. So low carb, keto, carnivore. He eats that was 95% of the time, and to him it includes anything that comes from an animal (including eggs and cheese). He said basically the same thing - he tried it for a month, and he felt so much better, even after being keto for years. His chronic cough went away. His eczema disappeared. Brain fog no more - so he did it another month, then another, now he's been eating this way for 2 years I think?

He did say that not everyone has to go to that extreme. But, like Dr. Fung likes to say, it's a choice. No one is forcing you to do that, but you can if you want.

Since I'm alone right now (hubs comes back in November now :) I think when I get back from Hawaii the middle of March I will try it for a month and see what happens. It is also supposed to be good for an elimination diet, where you can add things back one at a time and see how foods individually affect your body.

I agree boredom would be the biggest challenge, but a 95% compliance might be worth checking out.

Karen "KD"





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2/9/20 10:45 P

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I hope it helps with your symptoms Kelly!

Holly
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KELLY_ZC's Photo KELLY_ZC Posts: 34
2/9/20 9:51 P

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CARNIVORE???
I did the Carnivore diet for 5 months up until Jan of this year.
I noticed the inflammation of my finger joints reduced greatly & my grip became stronger.
I was having some inflammation in my toes that also improved.
I went from 3 migraines per month to zero.
My sinus, TMJ, and insomnia didn't improve. The first 3 months I experienced loose BMs and some minor itching on my arms, as well as nose bleeds (never had them before). I think it may have been my body getting rid of toxins such as oxalates.
Everything settled down... started dropping weight some by Dec (5th month Carnivore)... and had no cravings which for the first time ever kept me from eating holiday foods.

Then... I fell off the wagon little by little this January. I started eating more & more processed meats (pepperoni, cured ham, too much cheese) & within hours noticed my mood was negative. I suddenly was frustrated with everything & had an I-don't-care attitude. It just wasn't me! Oh, and I had 3 migraines this January. That cycle of careless eating led to sugar cravings and increased inflammation to where now I am suffering with these joint issues again. And my sinus? They are worse!

I know my body at this age needs Zero Carb to feel best. Eating basic carnivore is easy... little shopping & very little prep. We have chickens & butcher so that diet really fits our life. My husband loves it & is for the first time at a lower weight than he was in high school. There are many more good things I can write about carnivore... so WHY did I slip and fall? I think I'm getting tired of meat! I began treating myself with BBQ sauce, some breaded meats & eventually desserts... such a stupid thing to do (and painful)! So, I decided to go back to a very low carb keto type diet for now... that's better than having sugar.

My plans are to eat the Keto-WOE when we go out to restaurants & stick with a more Zero Carb WOE at home. I hope it works for me. Time will tell.



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1/31/20 12:42 P

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you know James i never thought...

when i was a kid i was allergy tested after a near fatal bee attack. i had to get a year of shots to calm my reaction to the stings...and now i hear that was a temporary and i need the new series, but i digress.
in the testing it showed i was allergic to 2 things..pet dander, especially cats, and dust. well the dust is a no brainer..if i work on a room thats been idle for a while, i literally cant breathe for a bit. its scary. so i do my best to keep that from happening.
Cats..my mom adores them and she wasnt about to get rid of them, and i had my own that slept on my bed, which i'm sure is why i had a perpetual runny nose and sneezing. the dogs never really gave me any trouble, i had just the newfs and a samoyed, they both shed but its the wooly undercoats that come out and i dont seem to have a problem with that.
but the cats have been a problem all along...i have 2..(the last 2 i will ever have..) and have sneezed since i got them..but now that you mention this i'm realizing i'm no longer sneezing or runny nose..i dont let them in my bedroom but they are in rooms i'm in all the time. so i have to say the only difference is keto..so yeah.

Holly
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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,920
1/31/20 12:24 P

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I now play with my friends' dogs, and before I tried to just avoid all contact. No jumping on me, getting dog hair on my clothes, bringing it home and contaminating my house ... NOT GOOD. I like dogs a lot, ... and cats, ... they are sort of OK.

That is not an issue anymore. If Abby and George (the dogs) jump on me, and lick my hands when we play, and that is OK, but if I rub my eyes ... bad news. I wash my hands at my friends house after playing with them. But this is 100 times better than my allergic reactions pre-Keto.

I don't know what happens to other folks whose hands get licked, and then they rub their eyes, ... I do presume that I still have a problem, just that my reaction to allergens is way way down.

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 1/31/2020 (12:27)
James
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1/31/20 8:56 A

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i've had less swelling in my knees and ankles which is amazing since i had the problem since i was 35

Edited by: NIGHTSKYSTAR at: 1/31/2020 (08:56)
Holly
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READTEACH1's Photo READTEACH1 Posts: 749
1/31/20 5:57 A

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James, that is what I am hoping come spring. I didn't pay that much attention last year because I had just started. It will be interesting to see if I can tell a difference!

Never, never, never, never give up.-Winston Churchill


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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,920
1/30/20 2:29 P

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READTEACH1,
one thing I didn't mention in my initial post, my dog and cat allergies, mostly breathing due to who knows what that they shed, is gone.

My guess is that your seasonal allergies, if they are breathing related, are probably much much better.

James
Alberta, Canada


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1/30/20 9:42 A

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for me it would be beef and cheese. those are what i eat the most. if you'd asked me before keto i would have said i'd give up everything but buttercream, bread, pasta,and fruit. funny how once you do something you wonder how you ever thought you couldnt live without it.
i've opened my brain to know i can, truly, give up anything...not that i want to..but that i'm willing to and i can.

Holly
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FIINALEE's Photo FIINALEE Posts: 4,062
1/30/20 8:25 A

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KD, i’m with you! The one thing I have noticed is that I don’t need as much of my wine and beef as before keto! Coffee!?!? I have switched to more decaf, and my HWC is my go to for breakfast.

Hugs to Surround Us All as a Group! Connie, in WI
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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 6,113
1/30/20 7:28 A

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I am interested in being my healthiest self but there are things I really don't want to give up. Wine, coffee, red meat, avocados and cheese. But I'd like to see how they affect me so I can reduce if necessary.

Karen "KD"





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READTEACH1's Photo READTEACH1 Posts: 749
1/30/20 6:20 A

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I have noticed less arthritis joint pain since starting keto woe ten months ago. I still take a Zyrtec every night for allergies. I might try eliminating it and see if my lifelong allergies (mostly environmental, such as trees, grass, dust, etc) are any better. Overall I feel better-not too scientific lol. But my blood work last June was good. I look forward to my yearly checkup to see if it still is. I eat red meat and am not giving it up. Not bacon either, although I know it is processed.

Never, never, never, never give up.-Winston Churchill


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1/28/20 8:38 A

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It would be out for me it has sugar.

Holly
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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 6,113
1/28/20 8:24 A

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Top line in case you can't read it is "Organic chocolate (organic cocoa paste)

Edited by: KDGIRL at: 1/28/2020 (08:25)
Karen "KD"





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1/28/20 7:16 A

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Glad it came!! And yes it’s not keto..it’s the elimination information I thought you would like. I wouldn’t use her foods use keto foods.
Can you screenshot the ingredients? On the keto snacks? If they are like a Cookie, and small, 3g carb is high but not unheard of.

Holly
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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 6,113
1/28/20 7:09 A

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I got your book yesterday Holly - thanks!! I've been buying less veggies (although not none) and am interested in trying the protocol out. I skipped through the book - they have carby stuff mentioned in there so it'll be an interesting read.

Have you heard of this new Costco product?

Keto Choc Snaps



They are little tiny chocolate snacks. My brother found them at Costco - and he has bags of keto snacks for his trip. He gave me one to try - it was tasty. But is it good keto?

Karen "KD"





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1/27/20 11:52 A

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no not at all. food holds so little importance to me now it wasnt hard for me at all to just stop the veg. i thought i would see a big loss, i didnt...i think my body is just happy where it is so i'm listening. i dont gain, i lose little bits here and there...thats all i need.


Holly
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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 6,113
1/27/20 11:25 A

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Huh that's interesting Holly!! Have you seen any difference in anything since you've basically gone carnivore?

Karen "KD"





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1/27/20 10:07 A

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i do more beef than anything. the only thing i dont go for the fattiest of is burger..i get 80%, otherwise theres so much fat i have to toss its a waste of my money. i get plenty of fat from 80% and keep the extra amount with the burger. i cant do that with the 70 or 73%.

I'm pretty much carnivore now. i eat veg here and there (last night i had chili with a small amount of diced tomato..that was my first veg in a week) and once in a while i make keto bagels or something, but otherwise its just meat and dairy.

Holly
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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 6,113
1/27/20 7:55 A

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I would think James had it - processed red meat perhaps?

In any case - I go for the fattiest meat I can find when I'm eating meat. It tastes better and I don't have to add so much fat to other food.

I am planning on trying the carnivore diet to see if any foods are inflammatory for me - just a simple experiment that I can do once all my company leaves since my husband is not home right now. It could be interesting. Although right now I eat everything I want (keto of course).

Karen "KD"





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URBANLOTUS's Photo URBANLOTUS Posts: 4,086
1/27/20 6:15 A

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Interesting info. Since starting a Keto woe almost exactly one year ago (on 30th Jan) I have noticed a lot less inflammation:

- less swelling from fluid retention in my legs and neck
- less arthritic pain in hips/back though not so much improvement in hands/neck/feet

I feel much better all around on the Keto woe, my blood work is improved, and there are many other little things that seem to have improved. I am just sticking to the inflammation improvements to stay within the thread topic.

PS I eat red meat too. Funny that it is mentioned as an inflammatory food? As far as I know, the Carnivore diet people say that meat is the least allergenic of foods, so it is the ultimate elimination diet. I wonder what studies were done to prove the inflammatory properties of red meat? I think it might be considered acidic....so not allergy causing but certainly acid producing?


Edited by: URBANLOTUS at: 1/27/2020 (06:37)
Susan

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SHAYNE139 Posts: 484
1/26/20 10:47 P

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James good info. About the only thing on the list that I eat now are FF and the once in a blue moon processed meats.

911BRAD's Photo 911BRAD Posts: 9,779
1/26/20 9:23 P

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James... great thread... thank you.

I'm 4 weeks into my Keto woe Plan, and realize it's premature to say I'm cured, but I can say that the weekly attacks of gout have disappeared (fingers crossed). I've been experiencing regular bouts for at least 2 years, and taking some heavy medications to prevent and others to reverse the condition. I was having episodes in different parts of my body, the back was the worst, believe me none were fun.

I've done a bit of looking around online and I'm not really seeing much on Keto plans being touted as beneficial for folks dealing with gout issues... in fact a Keto menu is the polar opposite of most prescribed gout meal plans. Will keep doing what's working for me, from the way I'm feeling I think I may be experiencing many other healthy side effects. Blood work in March will be interesting.

BRAD (Central Standard Time)
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1/26/20 6:04 P

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as i said before, check out "the plan" if you want an elimination diet...unfortunately its not keto but i dont see why it couldnt be applied to keto...

Holly
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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,920
1/26/20 4:51 P

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SHAYNE139,
that is an interesting comment about an elimination diet. There are some folks on the team who have cut their list of things to eat way way down, then slowly added things back in, finding out what bothers them.

Oatmeal doesn't fit a keto plan 13.7% of its cooked weight is carbs, 2.5% is protein, 1.5% if fat.
nutritiondata.self.com/facts/breakfa
st
-cereals/1598/2


So this is a bad start for a Keto elimination diet.

James
Alberta, Canada


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Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,920
1/26/20 4:42 P

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I just presented the information as I found it, unfiltered. I don't avoid read meat, I look for fattier cuts of red meat.

I was slightly surprised that they were consistent in avoiding high carb things as part of their list. I was surprised that quite a few mentioned red meat as inflammation causing, though some were more specific about the meat being "processed".

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 1/26/2020 (16:52)
James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
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SHAYNE139 Posts: 484
1/26/20 2:40 P

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KD Girl, That's interesting about the red meat. The first I heard of the elimination diet was to start out with only oatmeal as that is the least harmful food, then add foods as you could.

KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 6,113
1/26/20 2:37 P

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Interesting about the red meat though - when starting an anti-inflammation diet, many places recommend you go to "carnivore" status - eating meat only. Then once your inflammation is under control, add one thing in at a time to see what foods particularly inflame you.

See Will Cole, MD, Dr. Mindy Pelz, Thomas deLauer, etc. I'm sure there are more I just can't cite them without looking them up right now.

I believe most of these foods are how the majority of America at least eats, and that's one reason why we are in such a huge medical crisis.

PS -

Karen "KD"





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SHAYNE139 Posts: 484
1/26/20 2:27 P

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James, that is why I brought up lectins the other day. My doctor prescribes to the theory that they should be avoided because they might/could be the cause of inflammation.

As to processed foods, that is anything that has a long ingredient list with things you don't know what they are, can't pronounce and can't make in your kitchen. They also come in packages, boxes and sometimes cans.

Edited by: SHAYNE139 at: 1/26/2020 (14:29)
YANKEEBACKHOME's Photo YANKEEBACKHOME Posts: 12,104
1/26/20 2:26 P

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I haven't touched margarine in YEARS! Never liked it, anyway.

I keep lots of different oils in my home:
Avocado
Olive (one each of plain, garlic, basil, and chile)
Macadamia nut
MCT
Anything I am missing?

Love 'em all.

Thanks for the links. I will go take a look.

Debb

Edited by: YANKEEBACKHOME at: 1/26/2020 (14:27)
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FIINALEE's Photo FIINALEE Posts: 4,062
1/26/20 2:14 P

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Amen James!!! Good info to keep in mind. I do NOT ever want to experience the inflammation that gets stored in my organs, muscles, etc. I'm going to to keep enjoying this WOe!!

Hugs to Surround Us All as a Group! Connie, in WI
The pleasant thought for me today is LUCKY.
Show Up Today. Set my shoulders. Put On a Smile
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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,920
1/26/20 1:46 P

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My personal inflammation is ulcerative colitis, which is an inflammation of the small intestine. Since eating Keto this has gone into remission. It was noticeably better in 3 months, and gone as far as I can tell in 6 months.

I think quite a few folks on this team experience the health benefits of less inflammation somewhere once they've eaten Keto for a few months. Could be gout, could be allergies, could be headaches, ... let us know. If anything got worse, let us know too.

So I googled inflammation and diet and found these links, no "Keto" in the googling, I just let the card fall where they may. I'm going to focus on what NOT to eat.

From Harvard Medical School:
www.health.harvard.edu/stayin
g-healthy
/foods-that-fight-inflammation

Don't eat:
1. Refined carbs
2. French fries
3. Soda and other sugar sweetened beverages
4. Red meat and processed meats (sausages ...)
5. Margarine, shortening, lard

OK, Keto fully agrees with 1,2 and 3. I probably eat more red meat, I'm not sure about that. On point 5, I've had the thought before that if a fat is hard at room temperature it should be avoided. Olive oil is liquid at room temperature, shortening and lard are not. So I'm mostly on board with 5. Just not sure about margarine, though others probably have an opinion on this. If you avoid margarine, then your Keto is fully on board with point 5.

All in all, eating Keto should be surprisingly non-inflammatory
- - - - - -

From health line:
www.healthline.com/nutrition/
6-foods-t
hat-cause-inflammation#1

1. Sugar, high fructose corn syrup
2. Artificial trans-fats
3. Vegetable and seed oils
4. Refined carbohydrates
5. Excessive alcohol
6. Processed meats

Some are the same, especially on the carbs and sugar. As far as meats go, the two agree on "processed" meats, like sausage. But this one didn't mention red meat.

- - - - - -
From the mayo clinic:
newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/di
scussion/
home-remedies-how-a-healthy-d
iet-c
an-help-manage-pain/

The pro-inflammatory things, i.e. things that contribute to inflammation:
unhealthy fats (including saturated and transfats), added sugars, preservatives and refined carbohydrates.

1. processed foods (whatever that means exactly)
2. carbohydrates
3. sugars
4. unhealthy fats (i.e. trans-fats)
5. deep fried foods
6. pastries
7. processed cereals (high carb of course, all cereal is pretty high)
8. white rice (though I don't think brown rice is much better, but again it looks like carbs here)
9. white potatoes
10. sugar
11. bread
12. red meat

All done in one fell swoop eating Keto, except perhaps for 5. and 12. But frankly I don't deep fry anything. If I did, what would I deep fry? I don't bread my meat, so I'm not sure what I'd put in a deep frier anyways. And again read meat shows up. But all in all Keto looks very much in line with anti-inflammatory.

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 1/26/2020 (13:47)
James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
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