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6/28/12 11:25 A

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Thank you ladies for your help and support! I really appreciate all of your input and concern!
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Snow-White





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VHALKYRIE's Photo VHALKYRIE Posts: 2,234
6/28/12 12:33 A

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Fat feeds brain, but protein feeds muscle and organ tissue. Protein deficiency is very serious. If you don't eat enough protein, your body consumes muscle. If you don't have enough muscle, it starts consuming organ tissue. Protein is required. It is not optional. Prolonged protein deprivation can lead to renal failure, and that damage is permanent.

I weigh about 128lbs and I eat about 80g protein per day.

FAITH2FLY has some very sensible advice.

"The most effective way to do it, is to do it." - Amelia Earhart


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CD11884094 Posts: 195
6/27/12 10:14 P

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Yes, I count calories too, but I am more concerned with meeting nutrient needs right now than a specific number of calories. That said, I find that when eating lower carb/non processed they usually end up where they need to be for weight loss without trying. I have been getting 50% fat, 20-25% carb, 25-30% protein the last few days. I do eat higher carb than most low carbers, but it comes from non starchy veggies.

To SNOW - I have PCOS and insulin resistance too. I have gone as low as 500 calories a day in my attempt to lose weight and even that ended up in a 2 month stall of despair after the first 2 weeks. I think it (low calorie diet) just makes matters worse. I have been able to increase my metabolism and significantly improve my insulin resistance with exercise more so than diet. Its really hard - I have nerve damage in my back and in pain every day, but believe me, with just 30 mins a day I can eat those calories and see improvement for PCOS issues, mood, and weight. (I did gain weight the first 2 weeks, but it and then some is gone now) Another thing for PCOS is vitamin D - you should get your level checked. I was severely deficient and that can prevent weight loss and do a number on your bone density (not good!). Dr. gave me suggestion of at least 2000iu vitamin D per day.

Edited by: CD11884094 at: 6/27/2012 (22:30)
SNOW-WHITE's Photo SNOW-WHITE SparkPoints: (0)
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6/27/12 9:26 P

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I guess I am lacking protein at 180 pounds, I would need to eat 90g of protein per day. I guess I would then ramp that number down for every 5 pounds I would lose. 90g is a lot...that's like three 3.5oz chicken breasts in a day or like 15 hard boiled eggs in a day. My understanding was the brain fed on fat or it fed on carbs. Putting a minimum requirement of protein in this equation creates a whole new dynamic. So, my protein should be at 90g, my carbs should be under 20g, but if I'm over 1,000 calories b/c of insulin resistance & PCOS, I automatically gain weight. But can you see if I increase my protein this much I will soon weigh 300 pounds...what am I missing here? I am a believer that this weight loss situation is 95% diet, and I'm just trying to figure it out. : )))))))

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VHALKYRIE's Photo VHALKYRIE Posts: 2,234
6/27/12 4:40 P

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I wouldn't say it was easy. It takes a lot of tweaking, and trying to understand my biology in ways that are really boggling - lol.

My concern is what I mentioned earlier. The low-carb plans I've read about are all pretty consistent - paleo, protein power, atkins, etc. The main macronutrient you should track and make sure you get a minimal amount of is protein. Consuming butter and coconut oil will not supply the essential amino acids that comes from animal protein.

Edited by: VHALKYRIE at: 6/27/2012 (16:40)
"The most effective way to do it, is to do it." - Amelia Earhart


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SNOW-WHITE's Photo SNOW-WHITE SparkPoints: (0)
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6/27/12 4:32 P

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I take a lot of vitamins! Multi-vitamin, potassium, magnesium, Vit. E, just added biotin. I guess what I'm experiencing with the original stall on low carb is something that is apparently quite unique. The research available about the benefits of coconut oil are pretty awesome. I would ultimately like to ramp up my consumption of it to 3-4 T. to get the full brain benefits available, but it's just too many calories and your objection seems to be with liquid fat and that possibly being a hindrance to weight loss. It's not that I'm not losing weight using this plan, it's just that I really wondered if anyone had a similar obstacle and turned to a high fat, low carb, low calorie plan to lose their remaining weight. I guess everyone on this forum is losing quite easily with the low carb lifestyle. I posed this same question on my PCOS forum and some of them are only losing a pound a month low carbing, which is pretty discouraging. I guess I just have to face the fact that my condition is going to have it's way with me and I will have be more patient than most to reach my goals. Thanks so much for your input! : ))))

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VHALKYRIE's Photo VHALKYRIE Posts: 2,234
6/27/12 2:38 P

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I don't have your body, this is true. I have mine. When I ate the standard low-fat diet, I didn't lose weight unless I went under 1000 calories, either. Yes, I lost weight that way. No, it wasn't good for me. Extreme calorie restriction was the only way I could get it to work because I wasn't eating the right things for my body.

Speaking for myself, I did not need to restrict my calories to extreme levels while on low carb. Once I figured out the macronutrient balance my body likes, it fell into place.

We are all different, we have to make our own choices. How are you getting your base mineral and vitamins? I find I can end up potassium depleted just on normal VLC, and have to up my fruit intake for a few days. I can imagine potassium depletion would happen pretty quickly on a mostly liquid fat diet.

Edited by: VHALKYRIE at: 6/27/2012 (14:52)
"The most effective way to do it, is to do it." - Amelia Earhart


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6/27/12 2:17 P

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VHALKYRIE- It doesn't matter if the article was two days ago or what, the fact is that the same author and many others in the know are putting out conflicting info none of which is meant for everyone because everyone's body responds differently to different things. The bulletproof coffee is meant to offset any negative effect of IFing for females. All I know is I feel great when I drink it and don't want to eat.

The fact is that if I eat over 1,000 calories per day, I gain weight. If you had my body, what would you do?

Maxine-in my bulletproof coffee I add 2T.organic unsalted butter & 2T. coconut oil, mix it in a blender for 1 minute. It tastes delicious with no sweetener needed. The energy sustains me for 6 solid hours and is helping me overcome my "food longings."

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JUSTMAXINE55's Photo JUSTMAXINE55 SparkPoints: (0)
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6/26/12 5:42 P

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Oh my........I just don't think I could do that to my coffee! lol!
Thanks for the info!

Quitting is NOT an option!


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VHALKYRIE's Photo VHALKYRIE Posts: 2,234
6/26/12 5:25 P

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That is a new one for me.

At first I blanched, but then I realized that butter is just cream that is churned until the fat separates from the buttermilk. Definitely would need unsalted butter.

Still not on board with this for a weight loss aid. If you supply your body with a ready supply of liquid fat, it has no need to dip into stored fat, in theory.

Edited by: VHALKYRIE at: 6/26/2012 (17:29)
"The most effective way to do it, is to do it." - Amelia Earhart


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WOUBBIE's Photo WOUBBIE Posts: 19,420
6/26/12 4:00 P

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It's definitely not for everyone! lol!

www.bulletproofexec.com/how-to-make-
yo
ur-coffee-bulletproof-and-your-morniR>ng-too/


"•Blend with a pre-heated hand blender"

ROFLMAO!! Sure! I'm gonna do that every morning right after I milk the yaks....

Edited by: WOUBBIE at: 6/26/2012 (16:02)
Why are y'all afraid if EVERYONE gets to vote?
JUSTMAXINE55's Photo JUSTMAXINE55 SparkPoints: (0)
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6/26/12 3:26 P

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The coffee lover in me is dying to know exactly what is "bullet-proof" coffee? :-)

Quitting is NOT an option!


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VHALKYRIE's Photo VHALKYRIE Posts: 2,234
6/26/12 3:26 P

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The article I linked is a follow up from MDA, who was amending that IF may not be beneficial, and may be counterproductive, for women. The article you linked was from 2009. The article I linked was a couple of days ago. I did not do IF at any stage of my weight loss.

Best wishes in figuring it out.

"The most effective way to do it, is to do it." - Amelia Earhart


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SNOW-WHITE's Photo SNOW-WHITE SparkPoints: (0)
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6/26/12 3:16 P

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Here is an article by the same author, recommending IF to maintain muscle and promote fat loss:

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-ma
intain-muscle-while-losing-weight/#axz
z1yvWvji4V

It does also mention the 1g of protein per pound, but it says per pound of lean muscle mass...I'm not sure how I would calculate that. I think I have to do the skin fold test to find out my actual body fat and then there is a calculator to figure out the rest.

If I had to guess I'm pretty sure this diet does not include enough protein b/c the bulletproof coffee does not have any...I may see about adding a protein powder to the coffee, but that will increase the calories and also that stuff is so artificial, yuck!

I'm going to go back through my recipes and calculate the protein for them and see how it comes out.

I appreciate your help in figuring all this out!

Thanks,
Snow



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VHALKYRIE's Photo VHALKYRIE Posts: 2,234
6/25/12 5:02 P

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Your OT asked the question if other people are doing low carb/low calorie, and whether this is ok. My opinion is this is not a good idea. Intermittent fasting is usually alternate day cycle.

There is an important piece from that article recommending against IF for women. IF disrupts women's reproductive cycles. You already have a medical condition with PCOS. Is IF more likely to help or hinder?

I've only seen you mention fats. There isn't a minimal of fat recommend on low carb diets, but there is a minimum protein. If you aren't getting at least .6/1lb in grams of protein per day, muscle is being catabolized.

If it were me, I would try something else. Adding exercise seems a healthier option, rather than calorie restriction.

Edited by: VHALKYRIE at: 6/25/2012 (18:06)
"The most effective way to do it, is to do it." - Amelia Earhart


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6/25/12 4:33 P

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Woubbie, my thyroid is normal...my insulin resistance is due to the PCOS. A lot of women with this condition never get thin again...but I'm going to somehow someway!

IFing with the bulletproof coffee which has a lot calories and fat, feeds the brain with the fat and circumvents the negative adrenal response supposedly. I haven't been doing this every single day, some days I'm off plan just like anyone. But more days than not this is the plan I'm sticking to get this 3rd phase of my weight loss rolling again.

The bulletproof coffee is zero carb, then the dinner is low calorie & low carb. There seems to be a lot of passion here against low calorie, but if you've stalled out and you're still quite fat, what else can you do? I mean I've lost 45 pounds and I really need to keep going.

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VHALKYRIE's Photo VHALKYRIE Posts: 2,234
6/25/12 3:43 P

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Yes, but intermittent fasting means 'not continuous'. Are there days when you aren't fasting? If you continually stay at a very low calorie regime, you're raising cortisol, which is very stressful on the adrenals.

"The most effective way to do it, is to do it." - Amelia Earhart


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WOUBBIE's Photo WOUBBIE Posts: 19,420
6/25/12 3:41 P

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One more question for you - have you had your thyroid hormones checked recently? Very often when one hormone (like insulin) is out of whack other ones are as well.

Why are y'all afraid if EVERYONE gets to vote?
SNOW-WHITE's Photo SNOW-WHITE SparkPoints: (0)
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6/25/12 3:29 P

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This article states, "both obese men and women dropped body fat, body weight, blood pressure, total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, and triglyercides on a fasting regimen."

I think this article was stating that IF is not good for lean women. I'm fat. This article helps me understand that I may not have to do IF forever like when I'm in maintenance. Thanks so much for the information! : ))))))




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VHALKYRIE's Photo VHALKYRIE Posts: 2,234
6/25/12 2:33 P

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MDA wrote an article about this the other day. Basically IF is not a good idea for women. It's a stressor that raises cortisol. High cortisol will stop weight loss, along with a number of other serious problems.

www.marksdailyapple.com/women-and-in
te
rmittent-fasting/#axzz1ypbIg6Pw


"The most effective way to do it, is to do it." - Amelia Earhart


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6/25/12 2:07 P

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Woubbie, I did stall out at both phases...I do feel that with this low carb low calorie plan I am getting enough fat b/c I am supplementing with coconut oil and organic butter. I'm basically doing an intermittant (sp) fast on bullet proof coffee(which has the butter & coconut oil) during the day and then eating a very healthy low carb low calorie dinner.

For example a low calorie/low carb dinner might be:
1 cup (30g) raw spinach— 5 calories, .6g carbs
1.5 oz (42g) Tyson fully cooked southwestern chicken breast strips—60 calories, 1.5g carbs
1 ˝ T. feta cheese—30 calories, .25g carbs
For the dinner:
Total calories: 95
Total carbs: 2.35g

The bulletproof coffee keeps me totally full all day, then when I eat a dinner like this I am full.
The calorie intake varies but is well under 1,000 for the day.

Look, I just want to lose this weight. I've really been battling this one out naturally this time...no diet pills, no supplements, just me and my food. I have gained and lost this weight 4 times and I'm done. I'm tired of being fat...I was never fat as a child, I don't have a fat mentality. I have lost 45 pounds and I'm still fat. I have serious issues with insulin resistance and know if I can lose the weight I can battle that back some.

As far as sustaining this plan, I can and I will sustain it until I stall out again which according to my patterns will be once I have lost 20 or 25 pounds eating this way. However, once I hit 175 I will ramp up the exercise and hopefully that should help some with the stalling. Seriously, I'm not trying to be anorexic or anything...I'm fat and just trying to find a way to get through this 3rd phase of my weight loss journey.

Food longings! Yes...what to do? I'm trying to do other things to fill whatever psychological void there must be that causes that. I am taking up new hobbies like quilting and tennis. I'm trying to declutter my house and think differently about things. You know I'm cleaning up me so I'm cleaning up my house, too.

Not many people low calorie/low carb, probably b/c not many people have to...once they low carb they just lose all their weight. If didn't have so much to lose that probably would have been the case for me, too.

Again, your thoughts and comments are much appreciated! : )))))))

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CD1605829 Posts: 649
6/24/12 2:19 P

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Maybe you could try zero carb, moderate calories, high fat? Somewhere around 1600-1800cals/ day with 80 % fat and 20% protein should give you the numbers you need. I would suggest trying that out for a month and seeing how your body responds.

WOUBBIE's Photo WOUBBIE Posts: 19,420
6/24/12 12:29 P

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“I stayed at around 20g for 6 months and lost 25 pounds. I knew in my heart of hearts I was eating too much food...really taking advantage of those zero carb options to feed my compulsive eating demon.”

Question: Did you stall there or do you think you would have continued to lose weight if you'd continued eating this way? How many calories were you actually eating? By “eating too much food” did you mean that you were eating 2200 calories (which is pretty normal on low carb) or were you eating 3300? Most people would be thrilled to eat this way and still average a pound a week lost, though eventually it would probably slow down and you would have to make changes anyway.

“So I experimented with extreme portion control and did eat some refined processed carbs...but thinking since I was eat such a small amount that I'd be fine...NO! It took 6 months to lose the next 20 pounds by eating in this way.”

Same question: Did you stall there? Overall it sounds like you lost 45 pounds in 12 months which equals a very respectable average of .865 pounds per week (Yes, I'm a nerd. Had to stop myself at 3 decimal places.) All with no additional exercise, which, by the way, makes total sense to me.

“So I was thinking if I combined the two methods it might help me continue in breaking my compulsive eating and help me do what is right: low carb, no grain especially.”

You mean very low carb PLUS very low calorie? Truthfully? I don't really think it's sustainable. And I suspect you don't think so either or you probably wouldn't be asking us.

You're really talking about two very different eating issues here, one physiological and one psychological. You can tinker with your menu and get better physiological results (ie. lose more weight) but if you aren't taking the time to work out your psychological approach it will be all for naught – you might lose all the weight and then gain it all back, and then some.

Low carb in and of itself should get rid of most food cravings but it can't get rid of food LONGINGS. That's a different animal entirely. I don't have a great answer for you there. Everyone has a unique history and biology than dictates what food really means to them.

In the final analysis you have to be your own role model. Picture yourself fit and healthy ten years in the future. See yourself sitting at your dining room table talking and eating and enjoying yourself and look down at your plate. What do you want to see there? That's what you should already be eating.

Why are y'all afraid if EVERYONE gets to vote?
VHALKYRIE's Photo VHALKYRIE Posts: 2,234
6/23/12 11:36 P

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I don't currently count calories or carbs. However, when I was first starting out, I did track just to see. I kept my calorie totals to same as my low-fat diet days. I eat about 60-80g carbs per day, and lose weight. However, from what I can see I'm actually fairly lucky. Some people need to go much, much lower in order to lose weight. I just happened to catch low-carb at the right time before I did much more metabolic damage to myself, I guess.

The number of calories you're eating, I worry that your body is catabolizing muscle in order to make up for missing protein. You have to keep protein consumption at least .6/1lb of body weight in order to maintain the muscle you currently have. Losing muscle mass is a sure way to stall fat loss.

Edited by: VHALKYRIE at: 6/23/2012 (23:37)
"The most effective way to do it, is to do it." - Amelia Earhart


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CD2646942 Posts: 3,047
6/23/12 10:46 P

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Snow-White----I worry for you. From what I've just read in Robb Wolf's "The Paleo Solution", you can't do low carb and low fat. Your body has to have a fuel and that fuel is either carbs or fat.

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6/23/12 8:10 P

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Right Woubbie...I believe I stalled out but I stayed at around 20g for 6 months and lost 25 pounds. I knew in my heart of hearts I was eating too much food...really taking advantage of those zero carb options to feed my compulsive eating demon.

So I experimented with extreme portion control and did eat some refined processed carbs...but thinking since I was eat such a small amount that I'd be fine...NO! It took 6 months to lose the next 20 pounds by eating in this way.

So I was thinking if I combined the two methods it might help me continue in breaking my compulsive eating and help me do what is right: low carb, no grain especially.

This is going to sound terrible, but I'm talking about around 700 calories a day and around 10g of carbs coming from a vegetable source....but lots of good fat from cococut oil which feeds my brain and makes me feel great all day. This is what I mean by low calorie, low carb.

A few brave soles have said this works for them and I just wanted to know what you all thought about it...I mean it's not textbook, but given that I stalled will only taking in 20g of carbs, I just felt like I had to do something drastic to keep the weight loss going. Also, I have PCOS w/terrible insulin resistance. Also, I am having this odd compulsion to lose my first 50 pounds with no exercise. I just want to prove that it can be done! I have 5 more pounds to meet this crazy goal. Once I reach this goal, I am going to go all in on my exercise plan and hopefully that will get things going again, too.

Anymore thoughts that you guys have would be much appreciated! : )))))))

Edited by: SNOW-WHITE at: 6/23/2012 (20:15)
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WOUBBIE's Photo WOUBBIE Posts: 19,420
6/23/12 11:49 A

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Are you seeing the pattern here?

It looks at first glance that there is no pattern, but what this really means is that every metabolism has to be tinkered with to see what it likes and doesn't like.

Atkins was on the money when he started his new patients out on a strict 20g or less of carbs with very low glycemic choices for the first two weeks. Nearly everyone loses on that. Then, just like an allergy-based elimination diet, they begin to add back carbs by 5g/week increments to see where exactly they DO stall out. And they WILL stall out at some point. For some lucky folks it's at 100g or so. For some it will never be much above those initial 20. :(

And you do need to periodically adjust, because as you weigh less you'll need to work harder to lose the remaining fat.

Why are y'all afraid if EVERYONE gets to vote?
SIMPLEMAW Posts: 4,141
6/23/12 10:51 A

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I sort of count both, but mostly it's just automatic. I usually eat between 25 adn 35 net carbs and between 1600 and 2000 calories. I don't exactly count them, and those aren't hard and fast rules. I track my food for the accountability of it, and that's how I know how many calories and carbs. If I see that a day looks like it's going to be high or low (I, too, am concerned about eating too few calories), then I might adjust what I have for supper, but my food generally ends up in those ranges without any thought or effort on my part. I have beenj eating low carb for seven or eight years. When I first started, I just counted carbs. Later I found that I needed to count calories, too, to get them in the range that I wanted.

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6/22/12 10:14 P

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I only count carbs and have lost 57 lbs. since the first of the year. The calories don't seem to matter....I try to stay around 60 carbs a day.

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PINKHAIREDMOM's Photo PINKHAIREDMOM Posts: 194
6/22/12 9:45 P

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I do count calories and carbs. Mostly, because I tend to eat less on low carb and have caught myself eating under 1000 calories 2 or 3 times in the last month. Too many good things coming in from the garden! I try to keep between 1400-1800.

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LADYJAKE1's Photo LADYJAKE1 Posts: 1,960
6/22/12 8:33 P

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I just count carbs, if I am eating low carb the calories don't seem to matter.

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6/22/12 7:34 P

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I never tracked calories since I started low carb. I have always eaten until full and left it at that. Then, I was in nyc visiting my family and the meat there is horrible, all low fat! So, I decided to eat Bubba burgers. Well I made the mistake of flipping over the box and saw how much fat and calories I was eating! It was around 2500 calories and well over 100 grams af fat!
So, now I do not count! But it is probably between 2000 and 3000 a day.

CD2646942 Posts: 3,047
6/22/12 6:36 P

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I entered low carb (20 net carbs) as a nutrient in my food tracker and am going by the calories that it brings up which is 1200 to 1550. I stay at about 1300 most days. Hope this helps.

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6/22/12 5:59 P

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I went from 226 to 201 at 35-45g carbs and 2100 calories. I was losing slowly over six months on that level. Been stalled for about six months.

How low do you mean by low calorie?

Why are y'all afraid if EVERYONE gets to vote?
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6/22/12 5:25 P

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If you count calories, what is your daily target for calorie intake for weight loss?

I lost about 25 pounds counting only carbs, then I hit a stall big time! Then I lost another 20 pounds doing extreme portion control and I ate carbs. I have been experimenting with low calorie low carb diet that I have designed myself. I just would love to hear your input on this because there really isn't a lot of info about it out there. It seems people either do one or the other. Any input would be helpful and appreciated!

I am utterly convinced that low carb is what I need to do for my health and I still have a lot of weight to lose.

Thanks,
Snow

Edited by: SNOW-WHITE at: 6/22/2012 (17:28)
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