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BUDGETMAW Posts: 15,994
1/4/21 11:41 P

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Woubbie is good at that kind of thing.

CD14171862 Posts: 70,718
1/4/21 1:10 P

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BUDGETMAW Posts: 15,994
7/30/20 10:08 A

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Thanks, and welcome to our team!

WOUBBIE's Photo WOUBBIE Posts: 19,556
7/29/20 9:38 P

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Good info! I actually bought brazil nuts for the natural selenium content. I don't like kelp itself, which is the best source of iodine, so I got kelp tablets instead. The energy boost is subtle but noticeable.

Science literacy is a vaccine against the charlatans of the world who would exploit your ignorance for their own gain. ~Neil deGrasse Tyson
CHUBBYNOMORE3's Photo CHUBBYNOMORE3 Posts: 4,140
7/29/20 6:23 P

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Hi, I am a newbie to this team but went thru this previously when I was on Atkins.
Collard Greens is a good choice for Magnesium and sodium, especially Glory Seasoned Collard Greens. You won't find the potassium count on the can, but if you go to the website
worldshealthiestfoods it says 1 cup has 30.4 mg sodium (and that is cooked without salt so seasoned has more) 222 mg potassium,as well as 27% of daily rda for calcium, 12% of copper, and 44% of folate , Some other greens may be comparable.
Hope this helps.

I also read the "keto flu" article from the link below. One brazil nut a day gives us enough selenium, and iodine in in seafood. Add a little seafood of your choice: for the most part it has no carbs,with the exception of oysters, unless you dredge it in flour or cornmeal.

Edited by: CHUBBYNOMORE3 at: 7/29/2020 (18:30)
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At 172.2 I was no longer obese.YAY 161 now.

The unexamined life is not worth living. Socrates
"I must be willing to give up what I am in order to become what I will be." Albert Einstein
Live the life youíve imagined. Henry David Thoreau
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy is when men are afraid of the light


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7/14/18 2:27 P

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Thanks for the info, I will drink some broth for my headache.

WOUBBIE's Photo WOUBBIE Posts: 19,556
10/18/17 7:09 P

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Mark Sisson has a really thorough discussion of low carb "flu" here:

www.marksdailyapple.com/the-lowdown-
on
-keto-side-effects-whats-real-whats-R>not-and-whats-helpful/?awt_l=BrSE.&a
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;awt_m=JuenpiQC4hWvYa&utm_so
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Science literacy is a vaccine against the charlatans of the world who would exploit your ignorance for their own gain. ~Neil deGrasse Tyson
WOUBBIE's Photo WOUBBIE Posts: 19,556
8/4/17 7:34 P

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Good point - you have to experiment until you find what works for you!

I should mention that you should typically only need to increase your sodium for a couple of days during the induction phase when you've lost a lot of electrolytes. After that you can usually go back to a more normal balance.

Science literacy is a vaccine against the charlatans of the world who would exploit your ignorance for their own gain. ~Neil deGrasse Tyson
SMCMAHON8's Photo SMCMAHON8 Posts: 287
8/4/17 6:15 P

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i just could not take it anymore. i was salting everything heavily with salt and morton's lite salt. I also salted a pint of water every day. Still felt blah. I was drinking between water and decaf coffee about 3 -5 quarts a day.

I don't care for salted food much,..been using garlic powder for years.

So I made an extra effort..and measured the salts etc.

I decided to not drink so much as I just did not like taking so much salt and lite salt and it seemed I could not force enough down to alleviate symptoms,
After cutting back to around 2-3 quarts a day of liquid, the dizziness, light headiness on standing and dizziness going from cold to hot outdoors ceased. I am not working out, so I am not getting dehydrated.

I mention this in case increasing electrolytes does not work for you. It worked for me until i increased my water intake..

Too soon to see if the cutting of water has effected weight loss rate yet.

SWAMIMARTI's Photo SWAMIMARTI Posts: 52
8/3/17 8:55 P

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Thank You!

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WOUBBIE's Photo WOUBBIE Posts: 19,556
8/3/17 6:43 P

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Na is sodium/salt.

Science literacy is a vaccine against the charlatans of the world who would exploit your ignorance for their own gain. ~Neil deGrasse Tyson
SWAMIMARTI's Photo SWAMIMARTI Posts: 52
8/3/17 11:16 A

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New here. What is Na?

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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 16,168
6/14/17 1:15 A

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Lisa (MISSLISA1973),

I rank foods by what fraction of their weight is carbs. Sugar is 100%.

If your read that imitation crab label, you'll find something like 15%. I have to say I like, or should I say liked, the stuff. But if you really taste is as you eat it, you'll note that it is a little bit sweet. They've added sugar to it.

So what else is close to 15% just for comparison?
Mashed potatoes are about 15%, and they aren't low carb.

James
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WOUBBIE's Photo WOUBBIE Posts: 19,556
6/13/17 9:54 A

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That's great, Lisa! I'm glad this thread was helpful.

So many things about low carb eating are counter-intuitive. I shudder to think how many folks have tried it and not stuck to it because their first few days were so uncomfortable and they didn't know how to compensate for the changes.

Science literacy is a vaccine against the charlatans of the world who would exploit your ignorance for their own gain. ~Neil deGrasse Tyson
MISSLISA1973's Photo MISSLISA1973 Posts: 2,667
6/13/17 4:58 A

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I went low carb on June 1 after visiting my doctor that morning. This thread was very helpful to me because I had not ever even thought about considering a low/no carb diet before then; I was opposed to it. So of course, I had no idea about Low Carb Flu.

My energy has skyrocketed, and my pain has decreased significantly. Carbs sometimes find a way to sneak into my diet (no more imitation crab... I found out the hard way it has sugar in it). Whenever that happens, I feel a mild LCF the next day or two. I think that starting happening yesterday, and on the way home from work last night, I did overheat in the car. I felt kinda yucky when I got home, so I didn't eat anything and went straight to bed. I am better this morning, but I was still feeling a little off, so I'm having broth. That really does wonders, even if it's just a stomach ache. Funny thing, I put salt on stuff generously now, and I had a TV dinner (Atkins) for lunch. It seems that would be enough... we've always been told how much sodium prepared foods have. But broth seems to be the low carb "wonder drug." Thanks for this thread so I would know what to do!

Lisa

"By being yourself, you put something wonderful in the world that was not there before."
-Edwin Elliot

"Keep moving forward."
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WOUBBIE's Photo WOUBBIE Posts: 19,556
6/2/17 10:03 A

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I think it comes down to your preference of how to take a bandaid off. Some folks want to peel slowly, and some just yank and get it over with. The "flu" will make you feel bad in the short run but will force your body to adjust more quickly than tapering off will.

People who struggle with carb cravings are typically better off gritting their teeth through the transition, and then they come out on the other side with a great feeling of control and "normalcy" around food. Tapering is good for folks who already aren't as affected by carb cravings in the first place. You don't HAVE to be in "nutritional ketosis" constantly to lose weight - that's why calorie reduction works for a lot of folks.

Science literacy is a vaccine against the charlatans of the world who would exploit your ignorance for their own gain. ~Neil deGrasse Tyson
CED1106's Photo CED1106 Posts: 326
6/2/17 3:01 A

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"I know of a lot of people who didnít feel good in ketosis, but when they added in a few fruits (still low-carb) they suddenly started feeling awesome."

https://authoritynutrition.com/10-myths-
within-the-low-carb-community/

"This is also where the majority of the claims about ketogenic diets side effects come from. During this time, there can be fatigue, headaches, withdrawal type symptoms, low energy, muscles cramps or weakness, gas, diarrhea, bloating and impaired mood or cognition. You can also see an increase in cholesterol, triglycerides and other blood markers. When your body changes to be a fat burner, the liver releases much of the salt (and associated water) that it holds onto with higher carb diets. So many of these symptoms can be alleviated with a well formulated ketogenic diet including the addition of extra salt, potassium and lots of water (at least half you body-weight in ounces a day)."

That liver. Causing nothing but trouble... :D
http://mariamindbodyhealth.com/8-common-
misconceptions-about-ketogenic-diets/

BTW, I'm reading that, when you first lose weight in any low carb diet, you're using up your glycogen stores, which are stored in the muscle, and the liver. When you reduce the glycogen in your body, you reduce the amount of its associated water -- just as in the quote above. So... if you have the low carb flu, does that mean your body isn't used to this glycogen loss, and perhaps you should be less drastic with your diet?

Edited by: CED1106 at: 6/2/2017 (03:10)
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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 16,168
5/21/17 9:08 A

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KTLITTLE91,
do take some extra salt for those headaches. This is a temporary (typically about 3 days) thing until your body finds its new balance.

When I was there I simply took a glass of warm water, dissolved a tablespoon or so (yup a fair bit) in the water and swallowed it. I felt better in about 20 minutes.

It is an electrolyte thing.

James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


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BUDGETMAW Posts: 15,994
5/20/17 10:07 A

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Are you on any medications for blood pressure or blood sugar? Eating low carb can drop both really quickly, and you need to monitor both of them very closely, preferably under a medical professional's care. That is, they'll both drop quickly down to more "normal" levels. Not a problem if you're not taking meds for them to begin with.



NAYPOOIE's Photo NAYPOOIE Posts: 17,732
5/20/17 1:02 A

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I just recently suffered my first bout ever of low carb flu, and it was miserable. However, I drank two cups of bouillon and that pretty well fixed me up. Sodium seems to be the only thing I run short on.

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WOUBBIE's Photo WOUBBIE Posts: 19,556
5/19/17 11:52 P

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Remember that this is a very temporary situation. Your body is dumping a lot of water and with that go a lot of electrolytes - sodium, potassium, and magnesium in particular. You need to drink your water and get your salts back up.

Also, you don't have a great stockpile of the enzymes and other chemicals that you need to efficiently use fat for fuel, and it takes several days to get those up to speed, so you'll feel fatigued.

All of these symptoms pass really quickly, though, and then you'll start to feel more energetic than you're used to.

In the short run, if you feel woozy, you can add some berries for the sugar content. They still have a lot of fiber so they shouldn't spike your blood sugar, but they'll give you a little boost.

Science literacy is a vaccine against the charlatans of the world who would exploit your ignorance for their own gain. ~Neil deGrasse Tyson
KTLITTLE91's Photo KTLITTLE91 SparkPoints: (1,517)
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5/19/17 10:59 P

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Hi there! It is Friday, 5/19 and I'm experiencing major Flu like symptoms at the moment. I lost track of myself for a little bit, and I don't think I was keeping my carbs within 20C a day but now today is my first official day that I started Low-Carbing it again. I made one of those low carb pizza's and had it for Breakfast and Lunch. For dinner tonight, I had two hamburger patties on lettuce w/ chedder cheese, mayo and reduced sugar ketchup. I also made some cauliflower mash blended in with Heavy Cream and Butter. Now, both meals filled me up and I didn't eat for hours before I had my dinner because I wasn't hungry but I started experiencing symptoms still like major headaches, blurriness, nausea and weakness. I absolutely have no energy. I just had a cup of Beef Broth and it's helping a little bit and my headache is slowly starting to go away but its so frustrating...because usually when I get these symptoms, that's when I cheat on the diet and this time is different. I don't want to keep on failing. But its hard because today I didn't do anything since I had no energy in me...what do you do when your in this situation? because this weekend I have plans but all I want to do is just stay home, and lay in my bed.

TWEETYX2's Photo TWEETYX2 Posts: 2,071
5/15/17 2:15 P

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I do NOT take anything for my diabetes. I was expecting that when I had my A1C last November that the doctor would but he didn't and I consider it a blessing. I do NOT want to be on anything. My whole goal for my health has been to treat all medical and health issues with food and exercise. I totally subscribe to "Let food be your medicine and medicine be your food." Hippocrates.

Yes, it is a false low and I am aware of what that is.

I have been monitoring my blood sugar since January 2010 so I am also very on top of my numbers. I was pre-diabetic until this past winter. I was able to stay there for 6 1/2 years. It wasn't until this winter that I slipped into diabetes (over 135 mg/dl) and of course I knew what I had to do: go low carb.

I am very pleased to say that although I do not promote myself as 'the poster child of low carb' I will say that I have managed since I returned to actively being low(er) carb that I am now back in the pre-diabetic area so yes it works. I am sure it might have worked even faster if I would go lower but I am satisfied with my progress and I have a strong feeling I will be back in the normal range by fall.

Thanks for the advice all,

Pam emoticon

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A Look Back: January 4, 2017: 265.4 lbs.
January 1st, 2018: 231.6 lbs.
Total Wt. Loss in 2017: 33.8 lbs.

2018 Wt. Loss Goal: lose 52 lbs.
End of Year 2018 Wt. Loss Goal: 188.2 lbs.

This is not a race to the finish but a journey to the end.















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CALGAL98's Photo CALGAL98 Posts: 2,517
5/13/17 11:48 A

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When first cutting carbs, those used to a high carb diet and particularly those with insulin resistance, will feel like they are hitting a low when it is really just lower than they are used to. Its called a false low. If you don't test you don't know. I tested religiously for the first few months and could feel crappy at 100. Now I really have to hit a 60 to feel poorly. My preference is at 70-80 but I rarely go there, even with my meds. VLC keeps me very stable. That said, our bodies will adapt to lower numbers given time. I much prefer numbers under 100 for my health's sake.


Edited by: CALGAL98 at: 5/13/2017 (11:49)
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WOUBBIE's Photo WOUBBIE Posts: 19,556
5/13/17 8:56 A

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Pam, I still had occasional symptoms of low blood sugar for about the first 18 months on low carb, though the gap was larger. Used to be I could only go about 2 and a half hours without starting to feel irritable, and by 3 or 4 hours I would start to get shaky. Within a few weeks I could easily do 3-4 hours. At this point 6 or 7 hours between meals is no big deal.

The real puzzler is that my blood sugar doesn't necessarily "read" terribly low for me to get those symptoms, so there's something else at work here. I'm also hypothyroid, so that's probably a big factor.

The best thing you can do in terms of self-research is to invest in a blood sugar monitor if you don't already have one and test, test, test. Even for someone like me, who has never had a problem with high blood sugar readings, it's very illuminating to see just how various foods at various times of day affect it.

Science literacy is a vaccine against the charlatans of the world who would exploit your ignorance for their own gain. ~Neil deGrasse Tyson
NAYPOOIE's Photo NAYPOOIE Posts: 17,732
5/12/17 2:50 P

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Pam, do you take insulin?

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TWEETYX2's Photo TWEETYX2 Posts: 2,071
5/11/17 11:14 A

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The main reason I got the induction flu was not because of losing a lot of water weight which I did not since I had been watching my weight prior to switching food plans: it was the reduction if not elimination of sugar. Sugar is a carb. I was reading a lot of best seller books during the end of March and I remember having a light bulb moment when one doctor said sugar is a carb. What many may be responding to is the fact that they are no longer eating a lot of refined carbs (like junk food which it is) and therefore they are also dumping out a lot of sugar out of their bodies. When I go too low on carbs (for me---this is for me only) I get the shakes so bad I can barely hold a fork. I have always had a fast metabolism so I do need some carbs (good ones of course) so I don't go too low in my blood sugar. This has not been addressed here and so I wanted to add that as part of the equation. Salt is not an issue for me but as a Type II diabetic sugar (aka carbs) is. Finding the right balance is something that takes experimentation and time. Once you find it you are good to go.

Good luck in finding your balance!

Pam emoticon

TweetyX2 (Pam B.)
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A Look Back: January 4, 2017: 265.4 lbs.
January 1st, 2018: 231.6 lbs.
Total Wt. Loss in 2017: 33.8 lbs.

2018 Wt. Loss Goal: lose 52 lbs.
End of Year 2018 Wt. Loss Goal: 188.2 lbs.

This is not a race to the finish but a journey to the end.















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JIBBIE49's Photo JIBBIE49 Posts: 92,707
5/11/17 6:57 A

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I use No-Salt and take a 1/2 tsp in water as it is potassium. It doesn't taste great but I get it down fast. Ask your doctor about this. It is about 650 mg of potassium and you buy it in the salt section of the grocery store. It easily could be added to broth. I started my LCHF diet 31 days ago and I certainly had the Keto Flu the first week.

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KITTENCODER's Photo KITTENCODER Posts: 378
5/5/17 4:45 P

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Huh I hadn't thought about salt pills or gatorade. I will have to consider just popping a salt crystal, too. That's not a bad idea at all!

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WOUBBIE's Photo WOUBBIE Posts: 19,556
5/5/17 12:29 P

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In a pinch you can even take salt pills. That's what was available before Gatorade.

Science literacy is a vaccine against the charlatans of the world who would exploit your ignorance for their own gain. ~Neil deGrasse Tyson
JENNYWREN93's Photo JENNYWREN93 Posts: 1,952
5/5/17 12:16 P

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this happens to me about every month (thanks mother nature!) and I just toss back some Himalayan salt crystals with water and that usually takes care of it for me. I do this in addition to any salt I may do on my food, cheese crisps, etc. I actually had to do this yesterday due to my battling a food allergy reaction.


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KITTENCODER's Photo KITTENCODER Posts: 378
5/5/17 7:41 A

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I need to find something besides just broth to increase my Na. I thought my mexican casserole was high enough but it isn't unfortunately. I think some cheese crisps with pink salt might be good.

I got to feeling a bit light-headed an hour or so ago so I ate a piece of cheese, sausage patty, and slice of bacon. That seems to have helped!

Any recommendations for sneaking in Na?

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RUSTY_WOODS Posts: 1,281
5/4/17 10:55 A

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All of this happened to me when I started. I was on BP meds, and 2000 mg Metformin. I lost weight very quickly, and had depleted electrolytes, and dehydration, since most of it is water weight at the beginning. All that water weight off your heart and lungs is good, but too fast, and you get the carb " flu ". I did not drink any broth, but did increase my water intake for the first month, and it went away. As a diabetic, I also started experiencing low blood sugar, which were not a previous problem. It is a good sign that you are managing blood sugars better, but can be dangerous if it gets too low. I would get blurry visions, and then splitting headaches. Of course, when your vision blurs over, and you know it is low blood sugar, the immediate response is give me a pop. I need to see.. NOW! That happened to me the first few times..lol. You panic.

Instead, you should plan for it.I toned my exercise down to walking, and weightlifting ( no sports ). I still had the occasional low blood sugar for a year, especially as my weight dropped. My solution was 3 ozs. of berries immediately after the workout. I tend to do the workout on an empty stomach, but even if you have breakfast beforehand, save the berries, so you can bump the blood sugar back up afterwards. By the end of the first year, I was off my diabetes meds, which helped me stay steadier, and the low blood sugars ended.

**Since you are starting LC, you should probably tell your doctor, and get testing done. If you do the diet right, you should see quick results, and you should probably step up your doctor visits. I did them once a month, for the first 6 months, because my meds needed updating. Your doctors are going to be cautious, as they should be, and will want to see steady progress. By the end of the 6 months, I was down to 500 mg Metformin, and half my BP meds. Going back, and getting more testing, helps the doctor make adjustments. Even weight loss, won't cause them to change the dosages. They need to see evidence of improvement.. so don't be afraid to go more often at the beginning.



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BUDGETMAW Posts: 15,994
5/3/17 9:02 P

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Be very careful if you take medication for diabetes or high blood pressure. Both conditions should improve very quickly and you may need to cut your meds. A lot. Best done under a doctor's supervision, of course.

WOUBBIE's Photo WOUBBIE Posts: 19,556
5/3/17 4:05 P

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This is one of the most common issues that newcomers run into when they switch to a low carb way of eating. It's variously known as Atkins flu, low carb flu, Keto flu, and induction flu.

Obviously, it has zero to do with true influenza, which is caused by a virus. The most common symptoms you might experience are caused by your body's adaptation to eating fewer carbs:

Fatigue, lethargy
Headache
Irritability

Fortunately there is an easy fix for this: drink broth or otherwise increase your sodium and potassium levels for a few days.

The quick explanation: when you take the carbohydrate out of your menu, your body uses up what little stored glucose (glycogen) it has. Glycogen packs a lot of water, and as all that water is flushed out, so are a lot of your electrolytes. The low sodium levels cause headaches, and the low potassium makes your muscles easily fatigued.

There's a second reason for the fatigue. The body uses different enzymes and hormones to process energy depending on whether you're primarily a sugar-burner or a fat-burner. If you've been a sugar-burner most of your life, it will take several days to several weeks for you to produce appropriate levels of chemicals to efficiently burn fat.

It's usually recommended that you keep your exercise to things like walking and yoga for a couple of weeks until you're back up to more challenging workouts. The majority of folks find that they actually have MORE energy after this initial period than they did when they were sugar-burners, so at least it's worth the wait!

If you feel light-headed, woozy, or like your blood sugar has crashed, then it may well have done just that. It doesn't take much carb to bring you back from the edge, but you want to give yourself something with a lot of fiber in it so you don't inadvertently spike your blood sugar the other way. Berries are the best alternative - just a handful will probably put your blood sugar back in the safe range. DO NOT eat anything with starch, or you might have to start the induction process all over again.

Please, feel free to chime in with questions or experiences, but let's please keep this thread focused on the topic of induction flu only.

Edited by: WOUBBIE at: 5/4/2017 (13:16)
Science literacy is a vaccine against the charlatans of the world who would exploit your ignorance for their own gain. ~Neil deGrasse Tyson
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